According to MedlinePlus Medical Encyclopedia -
- “Passive-aggressive personality disorder is a chronic condition in which a person seems to passively comply with the desires and needs of others, but actually passively resists them, in the process becoming increasingly hostile and angry.
Psychiatrists no longer recognize this condition as an official diagnosis. However, the symptoms are problematic to many people and may be helped by professional attention, so we include it here.
According to Wikipedia-
- It can manifest itself as learned helplessness, procrastination, stubbornness, resentment, sullenness, or deliberate/repeated failure to accomplish requested tasks for which one is, often explicitly, responsible. It is a defense mechanism and more often than not, only partly conscious. For example, people who are passive-aggressive might take so long to get ready for a party they do not wish to attend, that the party is nearly over by the time they arrive.
About connecting emotionally:
From Scott Wetlzer, author of Living With The Passive Aggressive Man. “Unsure of his autonomy and afraid of being alone, he fights his dependency needs, usually by trying to control you. He wants you to think he doesn’t depend on you, but he binds himself closer than he cares to admit. Relationships can become battle grounds, where he can only claim victory if he denies his need for your support.”
About connecting sexually:
According to Scott Wetzler, author of Living With The Passive Aggressive Man, “Abstinence is a common complaint from women involved with passive aggressive men. If he’s in a financial pinch, he’ll take you out for the evening but remind you that the evening’s expenses are a huge burden. He’ll then make up pay by refusing to have sex. But if you offer to go Dutch before he suggests it, he’ll take it as an emasculating gesture. And still he’ll make you pay by withholding sex. His sexual refusal, however, will usually be hidden under the guise of a transparent excuse: he’s sleepy, sick, preoccupied with work.”
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Your blog is interesting!
Keep up the good work!
I needed somewhere to go this morning and your blog was a lifeboat for me. As Alex said in August, keep up the good work. As someone who has felt the pain of PA partners throughout my life reading this has been uplifting. I am not a dependent clingy person and PA can sneak up anyone at any time. I am shocked it is no longer classified as a illness by the American Psychiatric Association. BECAUSE IT IS DEBILITATING to so many relationships and next to Borderline Personality Disorders, it is one of the most difficult personalities to work with on inpatient floors. I know, I worked with patients for over 25 years….. go figure……and most nurses wanted to duck and cover when working with PA and most of the PA WERE men…in my experience anyway……… THANKS AGAIN FOR THE GREAT BLOG….
Maryann- Thank you for the kind words and the validation. I appreciate your comment.
Thank you for stopping by. I hadn’t realized you were here until now. Thanks for the encouragement.
I think this blog exposes your passive-aggressiveness!
TFT- Thanks for stopping by. You could be right. LOL. The stuff written here is mine, I wrote it, and I have no one else to blame, copy, or give tribute to.
Your reply is like the pot calling the kettle black……….and it was just plain mean which is the main poison of a passive aggressive arrow.
My husband just left for mass. I should be going, but I will go by myself tomorrow or Tuesday for my weekly obligation. I love church. I just cannot stand him. And he ruins it by being next to me… I am bitter, angry, resentful, and crying as I write this. He was successful in his career, but I saw shades of his behavior in that too. Most people wanted to work with him, but I saw it with certain behaviors. His nose up in the air with that arrogance and his unbending when someone else could find an easier and more streamline way of doing something…. No he wouldn’t change or write a new procedure. The next time they would do it HIS WAY… I am thinking in my head… You really are a jerk, but am I the only one that sees it?? Is it me. Am I nuts? The behavoir from the start of our marriage 6 years ago was the same. I saw traits of behavior reminiscience of my first marriage. I saw the behavior in my present husband before we got married. It is not going to work I told him; don’t call me anymore; what does he do? Shows up at my work, parks at the front door where everyone can see him at lunchtime as I am walking out with my friend. Dumb me. He does have good qualities, the kids like him. I marry him. Now I am crying and unhappy and he says I can’t be happy with anyone, I criticize everyone, I hate everyone including myself…throw in a family that wasn’t much nicer and just as passive aggressive until this spring when the mama matriarch died and they needed the money to bury her and guess who coughed it up… and now… I am “okay”. I am so unhappy. He makes mistakes with the bills, it’s I need a list….when the list is IN FRONT OF HIM…The family who couldn’t afford to bury his mother just spent $4,000 on this huge cemetery monument….he thought it was wrong he told me and then proceeds to tell his sister it is so nice and his one brother it is really great! I can’t take the schizo back and forth crap. He says it is all me. I feel like I am living in the spinning wheel they use to show prior to the Twilight Zone. I said if you didn’t approve of them spending the money (his family) they told us they didn’t have why say anything, why not just stay quiet and not txt them back? HIS ANSWER-I am not like you, jumping all over the place with disapproval. I had to say something….ahh…you told me, it was just like them to spend money they don’t have… well….I AM CONFUSED. And then the comments this am about me not liking anyone so on and so on and me crying. I am in a tough position. I was in a car accident 3 years ago, prior to that, was a highly paid travel nurse, now on disability, but still would like to sell our house and go it alone. He refuses, but tells me what a miserable person I am. Everyone that meets him loves him. HE just talks in this really nice tone, but recently in front of them tells me I interrupt him all the time, and when I do it ( which I know I do) I apologize and say I just did it, but He has to make a point of putting me down in front of people and then when I say something, he of course denies it. I HAVE reached the point of really not liking him and has anyone felt really really angry and actual disgust for the PA when they are going through their motions. Eyes wide open, batting their eye lashes, staring at you like you are insane. I want to actually smack him and have to lock myself in the bedroom and cry it out of my system. PLEASE, tell me I am not alone. I feel like I am and am starting to think what he says is true…… HELP!!!!!! Thanks, I know this was long, but it felt good to get it all out…….
Welcome Maryann- I’m glad you found us also. From the sound of what you’re saying, I’m also glad you’re getting a short break from your husband. It sounds like it was needed.
Reading your story it sounds as tho things are escalating. No, My Dear, you are not nuts though that is what our passive aggressive spouses want us to think and are so good at getting us there.
It sounds like you could probably use some support. Hopefully you’re surrounding yourself with good and positive friends or your own family. You also may want to seek out some group therapy or just a personal therapist. This is not because your nuts. This is to keep you from getting that way. We all need some sort of support system.
Many passive aggressives will not risk confrontation by “not texting back” or telling their family (or friends) what they truly think. They don’t have the stomach for the argument, or can’t get past being punished for showing any anger or dislike when they were young. My BF has told me for ten years he can’t even stand the smell of lamb cooking, let alone eat it, but when I told my girlfriend that when she was planning on having us over for dinner for lamb chops, you would have thought I was the one who put Jesus on the cross. He “felt so bad” and didn’t want to disappoint her, but I haven’t had lamb for 10 yrs.! LOL.
If your dislike and bitterness for him is getting as bad as you describe here, you may start a plan of action to prepare to leave him. If he doesn’t want to sell the house, in a divorce he can either buy you out, or be forced to sell it and you split the proceeds. Feel free to comment here or vent, or ask for help when you feel the need. You’re definitely not alone. There are those of us who have been in a PA relationship even longer than you, some who have made it out and are doing well, and those in the planning stages. I think our numbers are larger than even I realized.
Good luck with whatever you do to help yourself. As soon as you take that first step (like you have here) you’re on your way.
Married 26 years to my PA, AKA Pain in the A**.
The end finally came 4 months ago, I moved out.
After 3 years of ignoring me on a very important subject that affected he and I financially along with a teenage child still at home. He had no consideration of my feelings, his child’s future or even his own!
I am in the financial field by trade, over 20 years of experience. Been through the S & L downfall of this country. Been through 4 mergers in my 20 year career! I could see the writing on the wall almost 4 years ago, that it WAS TIME TO SELL THE HOUSE!!!! Take the money and run!
He was a Reator for 3 years, mostly a buyers agent.
I did my due deligence and called professionals that work with Bankruptcy and Consumer Credit Counseling as well as a trusted friend who works as an auditor for the government. They all said and agreed with me to sell. I inform the PA. and He ‘uggh hagghh’s” me…and he doesn’t address or acknowledge what I’ve said for a full week. (this is 3 years ago). I put his Realtor sign in the front yard of our home. He just about blows his top! And then never mentions it again.
I try to get him on my side, so to speak. Favorite dinner, night out, anything! He does not listen to me.
I went on anti-depressants to get through the rest of the year with him. My child senses my distress.
This ‘ignorance’ goes on for 2 more years. He finally got a real job when he realizes he can’t keep going in real estate since he’s had no sales for 9 months!
Constant begging, pleading, begging with him over this one subject.
Not only this, but we have an adult child still living with us, paying absolutely NO RENT, does not buy groceries, nothing… I talk with my PA constantly about an adult Man, even if he is our child, needs to move out!!! This also on deaf ears…
I sat and observed for one more year. I wrote in my journal, it’s the only one who listens. I observed. I even made simple suggestions over stupid things like; let’s have a yard sale? Aggh Haggh he says.
How about if we go to dinner at blah blah? Aggh haggh he says. How about that purple sky out there? Aggh hagghh.
I just laughed at how rediculous it all was.
Left the Adult child, the adult PA and the house. Took the teenager, my dignity and positive attitude on what I can accomplish on my own without his BS and LEFT!
Running as fast as I can. Will continue to running until I get far away from this PA.
Dear SSL- Welcome and thanks for sharing.
Wow, 26 years is a long time. It sounds like you’re quite accomplished in your own right without him. I bet he wishes he had listened to you about the house now, aye? I have a long time investor client that I tried and tried to warn but he didn’t listen either. I’m a Realtor and rode the S & L ride also. This guy was an old time investor and does everything the old ways. I guess he was just too far behind to get out of the way of the tidal wave. Anyway, sorry. I digress…
What did he ever say about saying ahhg haggh, but then never doing anything? I have to say it is the typical Passive aggressive response just to appease you at the moment. My first inclination would be to do what you did and put the sign up, tell him to pop it on the MLS, and pretty much take control. I don’t understand why he blew his top. It’s not like you hadn’t said anything to him about it. Is your house paid off? Are you still responsible on the loan? I’m sure you know all this, but sometimes there’s little details we don’t worry about until it’s too late, especially if he gets to a point he can’t make a house payment. Of course he may have been afraid if you sold the house 1) you may leave him 2) you may get rid of your adult child by getting a smaller place (which by the way I’ve done both, so sometimes those feelings are valid. LOL) but he should have discussed the reasons for not selling with you.
You were very smart to find your way by keeping a journal. Any kind of support helps, and when you keep a journal you can actually watch the patterns emerge. I always hate to see a family break up, but sometimes it’s necessary to preserve the sanity in yourself, and more importantly in your children. It sounds like you have a good attitude about what you can accomplish and what you can do with the rest of your life. I have to say I can’t blame you for running. Some of us just wonder in our own situations “what took so long?”
Please feel free to stop by and let us know how it’s going. Of course once you leave and get their attention, that’s when a lot of times the games they played to get you to start with, start all over again. Reading what you say here, it doesn’t sound like you’ll fall for that again. Good luck to you in the new “rest of your life.”
We tried ‘talking’ 3 weeks ago. I stated what could have been, 3 years ago, if we had ’sold’ the house back then. Money in the bank, no marks on our credit, could have moved to a larger city with more jobs….blah blah. And you know what the PA says to me?
“If you had TOLD me that, we could have done that”.
Wow! If I had known that! I thought to my self! Ha! I guess the joke was on me?
Then I told him, I did tell him that. And he just confirmed that Living with the WALL is better than with him because I can at least lean on the wall. I can’t him! I told him he made me feel like I was CRAZY! Who the HELL have I been talking to for the past 3 years?
I told him that he needs a professional and to leave me alone. I am done.
SSL- Boy, isn’t that just typical passive aggressive behavior? Once they’re “outed” for not listening or communicating, then it’s the “poor me. I’m so bad I guess I’ll just eat worms” routine. Ohhhh, I hate that! When my passive aggressive BF gets on that “Oh I’m so stupid” routine it’s really hard not to say “Yeah, you are.” But I know that would do absolutely nothing constructive. From everything you said in your prior comment, I can easily see how you tried to resolve the problem with him regarding the house. He knows it too, that’s why he switched to the “wall” routine.
Your comment about a professional makes me curious. Have you ever talked to him about getting professional help or the passive aggressive personality? Just curious. Sometimes when we wait so long and there’s been so much stress, and resentment, there just isn’t enough love left to try anything else. Unfortunately, the odds are not in the favor of the passive aggressive ever changing even with help, so sometimes it’s easy to feel like “what’s the point?”
Congratualtions on moving in a positive direction with your life. I’m sure it will be better for your teenager also. Hopefully you two are able to talk about what happened and why so your teenager can understand how not to handle a relationship when it’s their turn.
More than perhaps any other psychological condition, PA behavior patterns are consistant. I’m am still amazed to read that so many of us can report so many similar behaviors. Why aren’t more professionals addressing this issue when it effects so many of us? I keep thinking that I’ll see Dr. Drew or even Dr. Phil( who annoys me more than he should be able to) take this on but so far I haven’t seen anything. Dr. Drew would be my preference. Maybe we should approach him. Get this out in the open more. Most of us have been able to connect this behavior with our PA’s childhood. Overcoming 30+ years of this effecting someone’s life is debilitating to both the PA and anyone who cares about them. This needs to be brought to light more.
Hi Marilyn- I don’t know why we don’t hear more about it in the public eye, except that it was removed from the book that covers all personality disorders for doctors. From what I understand it wasn’t removed because it doesn’t exist. It was removed because the description and diagnostics were to vague. Supposedly they are correcting some issues, doing more research and then will re-enter it into the book. I’m sure the doctor’s you mention above would be very interested in the subject if they realized how many people’s lives have been terribly affected by a passive aggressive. I agree with you that many people still don’t even have a clue.
Thank you ladybeams and SSL for your comments! I have a similar situation to SSL’s. I’ve trying to get my husband to fix up the house so it can be sold (too expensive for us) for the past THREE YEARS. He procrastinates, watches TV, and will not do anything. I started keeping a journal of his behaviors and sullen, angry moods 2 years ago. It has been eye-opening to look back and re-read my journal and finally realize that he is passive aggressive! He has no communication skills, ignores me, will cut me off if I try to talk, is sullen, quietly angry, hides in his basement man-cave, stubborn, etc. etc. But in front of a family member or neighbor, etc. he is just as sweet as pie and fairly talkative! It blows my mind! Our house will be put up for sale next spring whether he likes it or not. He probably thinks I will then leave him (3 years ago this was not true, but it is true now!) I would like to leave now and take my teenager with me (we have to young adult kids…they do pay rent to us which is helpful). Here’s the problem…we need both of our incomes to pay for this house. If I leave he will be unable to make payments on mortgage/heloc/utilities, etc. So to protect our credit/home I have to stay here until the house is actually sold….yuck…most likely a year from now. Can you please tell me how I can live with this bitter old grouch until I move out? Thanks, I am so happy I found your blog.
Hi LCG- Welcome! Thanks for joining us.
You’re situation sounds extremely similar to SSL. Well, at least you see how it went for her. I don’t know what her situation is regarding title to the house, etc. but it sounds like her husband wouldn’t be able to make the payments, etc. without her either. You’re very smart to think about how his losing the house could have an impact on your credit, etc. also.
I’m glad to hear you have a plan to sell your house regardless of how he feels about it, although like SSL he’s gotten you to put it off thus far. I hate to tell you ladies, but you cannot count on him to do anything to aid you in your plan. Anything you want done to the house you are either going to have to do yourself or get someone to do it for you. Since you said your house is too expensive for you, I assume you really don’t have the money to just hire someone to get things done, but what you can do is if you have older kids at home, it’s amazing what you can get them to do to help you. There are a lot of things they and their friends haven’t done before that you may have to show them how, but they’ll think it’s fun because it’s something new. Also, they’re willing to “barter” like for pizza, etc. If you have girls they’ll help you clean out almost anything if they can pick a few things for a “hope chest” or for their first apartment. You may have to get a little creative for some of the bigger things. Craig’s List is a great source for getting cheap labor and their in almost every city in America, all you have to do is sign up and post your ad. It’s all free.
As far as how to get along for the next year or so while you’re getting things squared away, it’s often tougher when you have a plan and you’re just having to wait it out. Bring your sense of humor with you, and your lunch. LOL. It’s going to take a lot of patience now that you know what you want to do. You can be doing a lot of the little things and basically just ignore him to a certain extent. Have you ever heard that saying “keep your friends close and your enemies closer” (not that I’m saying he’s your enemy) but you treat them differently. All of a sudden you’re “sweet as pie” and they become your new “best friend”. Just try and keep things at a “game” level where you’re the cat and he’s the mouse. I don’t know what it is, but if you can make a game with yourself on “how often can I act extremely happy when he’s being extremely grouchy?” or “how often can I just throw him often by acting up when he’s down?” it seems to make it easier, at least for me. They say to “act” it until you “get it” for self confidence and everything else. I don’t see why it can’t work in these circumstances. If you take everything lighthearted, knowing he’s going to be an ass, then you’ll be amazed at how little he can get to you, because he can’t surprise you by this anymore. You already know.
That’s good that the kids pay rent. It teaches them responsibility and what it’s going to be like in the real world. My main concern there is I hope you have a good line of communication with them and you need to pay attention making sure they are not copying their father’s passive aggressive attitudes. I have found that many times it will only be one out of a few, but there usually is one and if you catch it early you may be able to counter act it. Nobody wants their children to be the nightmare for someone else that we’ve had to live with. Obviously it leads down a road of futility and unhappiness.
I’m happy you found my blog also, and I hope you’ll come back and let us know how it’s going. Just like you identified with SSL, there may be someone else out there in your situation watching what you do to see what they should or shouldn’t do. None of us are clinical psychologists here (but then they don’t have much luck with passive aggressives either. LOL), but we can help each other and learn from each other’s sharing. Good luck to you. I know it can be a long road ahead of you, but it sounds like you’re on the right track.
Thanks for your quick reply! It’s great to be able to “talk” to someone about him. I am respectful enough of him that I have NEVER told ANYONE what a sullen, moody man he really is. BTW, we’ve been married for nearly 25 years! I could say, what is it about all of us that we are with our spouses for DECADES before seeing the light? But I think I know why….we hit menopause and suddenly the veil is lifted! The kids are nearly out of the nest and we can see the future…and it don’t look so great.
Actually, we do have enough money to do some house fix-ups. I have had the driveway sealcoated, painters out for estimates, called a realtor and got a market analysis, etc. All of this was arranged by me. My goodness, how he tried to sabotage these plans, as I’m sure you can imagine!
Yes, I have started decluttering and getting rid of stuff. It makes me feel like I’m moving forward. But I can’t touch his stuff in garage or basement. He has to do that and he is King of the procrastinators. No, my kids will not help me, I’ve asked and asked and asked. They may be passive aggressive also. I have warned them that in January their rooms/closets will be decluttered and cleaned by me.
I will try and take your advice about acting happy when he’s grouchy. Sounds like a good game. I do dread going home to him at end of workday. I never know what mood to expect. Here is my mantra as I drive home from work: ”stay calm, do not criticize or argue, do not get angry or upset, do not expect anything from him, do not want anything from him….’cause buddy, I got your number and it’s almost up!”
Good Morning LCG- Wow, way to make things happen. Yes I can imagine the things he’s tried to do to waylay your plans but it sounds like you’re plowing right them. Good for you. I do understand about not touching the basement or the garage. Your husband sounds like my BF in the way that when the deadline is so far away, they figure they have all the time in the world. Same with the kids. It’s just not tangible for them. I was actually moving things into the storage pod before my son got his stuff together, and the BF didn’t start until just a couple of weeks before the “drop-dead” date and then he was in a panic. I did just what you are doing and just worked around them.
Your “mantra” sounds great. LOL. I’m sure it works too. Nothing like giving yourself a gentle reminder all the way home. The main thing is once he sees you’re no longer reacting to some of his tactics, he’ll have to either give them up, or unfortunately, try something else. One good thing to keep in mind is to try to “expect the unexpected” so that you don’t get caught off guard.
Good luck keeping the peace, if for nothing more than your own sanity. When you approach him like a game piece and a little humor, the stress on you is so much less and being married to a PA, that’s something we all need.
I’m just now getting over the sick feeling long enough to chime in. I’ve spent nearly 19 years married to my best friend and college sweetheart and I’m on the verge of completely losing my mind. I don’t even know where to start, but I have 3 precious children who’ve been raised in a loving home with two loving parents whose lives would be devastated if I didn’t continue to “suck it up” and keep going. I’m known for my positive, sunny disposition and valued for my talents and professional abilities, but I am truly going crazy and spending most of my energy trying to maintain a good front. My husband is aware of some of these feelings as of this week and is now acting extra bizarre. I even reached out to him with a heartfelt email the other day while we were both at work, and his response was to call from his cell phone with ” so, how’s your day going?” WHAT DO YOU MEAN, “How is my day going?” I thought. I asked if he’d received the email and he had. No response and he hasn’t mentioned it again. He will NOT communicate with me, which is relatively new. He’s consistently refused to adequately communicate with his parents, which has caused me a lot of grief. I’m always the bad person, the one who can’t seem to make them happy. My parents died over 10 years ago in their eary 50’s and I’d LOVE for them to reach out. Do they? No – they only call him on his cell phone. I’ll call them, and then it’s all fine, but no phone calls to our house. Now my husband won’t communicate to me, too. I think it’s because of the parent/wife cross-fire and he can’t deal with it. He won’t help in the ways I ask him to. I’ve taken on a mountain of responsibility as a result and am officially exhausted from carrying the load of a full-time job and three small children. We started off so positive, with hopes and dreams and lots of togetherness. Where did it go??? One major thing I noted upon my discovery of the passive-aggressive husband is the withholding of sex. It started on our honeymoom! He doesn’t make a deal of withholding, he just can’t explain why he’s NEVER in the mood. No initiation – it completely vanished from sight. I was chased the whole time we dated and couldn’t wait to finally be married, then wham! He can be so considerate is so many ways, which is why I’m left feeling so completely stunned by the lack of sexual interest and the avoidance/resistance routine to several large issues that have become extremely stressful for our family, especially his work schedule. I’ve been asking him to PLEASE try to adjust his work schedule for FIVE YEARS. I seem to have no trouble being able to be accomodating – I’ve become a professional accomodater. That is one of my major jobs – make it all work. I’m tired of being looked at like I have three heads. I’m a talented, intelligent person and I’m at my wits end. I feel I am loved and am constantly reminded how loved I am, but if he loves me so much, why the constant pain from not getting any satisfaction when expressing sincere problems. I do this is a nice way. I’m not a yeller. I ask, I reason, I explain, I say “please” and “it’s because I love you” and I still get nothing in return. This week has been horrible. If he would yell at me I’d be thrilled. I’d die for any kind of genuine response at all. This would cause any sane person to go crazy. There aren’t enought meds out there to go with this flow.
SLS- Good morning and a big Welcome.
19 years is a long time. Do you think he’s just really started acting out, or do you think you’re just finally getting tired enough to recognize it all. I would say from the sound of some of your comments, it’s probably the latter. It’s always harder to go through this stuff also when you have small children. They take so much energy and then to have enough energy for this kind of relationship is damn near impossible. LOL. I don’t know how you’ve managed for as long as you have. You must have really loved this guy. (Of course how many of us wish we could have married our high school sweethearts?).
Have you brought up couples counseling to him or anything like that yet? Obviously he’s like most PAs and not going to discuss your relationship with you like an adult. And if you’re thinking about meds, maybe it’s time you started thinking about your options and if it’s time to let go. I don’t necessarily advocate that, but I’m also not inclined to advise someone to stay in a relationship that’s tearing them to shreds. Another thing you’ll want to give some thought to is if his kind of behavior is damaging your children. They need to be able to grow up feeling free to communicate their feelings, not withholding conversation as a way of getting even with someone.
As you read here, you can’t count on them to help with or do anything, and if they do do something they don’t want to do they’ll just screw it up so you don’t ask them again. I don’t see the mountains of responsibilities going away anytime soon. When it comes to lack of communication with his family, that’s what they do. Not only are they afraid of emotional ties, they don’t know how to truly connect that way and with people they could conceivably care about.
I wish there was more I could do to help, as you truly sound desperate in your situation. Hopefully you’ll find some helpful suggestions here and some solitude in some of the comments knowing you’re not alone and hearing what some of the others are either going through, or have been where you are. Feel free to comment here anytime. I don’t know what kind of support you have outside of here (hopefully a lot of friends, etc.) but we will definitely give our support here, so feel free to comment anytime you feel the need.
I have been with my partner for 8 years now and have really only just opened my eyes to how PA he has actually been.
It manifests in very ’small’ strange ways to large ‘important’ matters.
Small ways could be – refusing to change his jeans or t-shirt after I spot he’s spilled something on them and suggest he should change before he goes out – forgetting an important date or event – refusing to tell me his work sequel (We have NEVER been on vaccation because he refuses to commit to dates incase ‘work comes in’.
Lies about the stupidest of things knowing full well I know the truth.. the lie gets bigger and bigger until there is an argument and then I am the one who is told is unreasonable and making a mountain out of a mole hill!
We got engaged after I suggested we get married Jan 1st 2009 – 3 months of trying to get him to commit to a DATE – just a date.. no huge wedding as I was already told that would never happen – He refused to even talk about it. He didn’t say a word for months so I stopped wearing my ring, he still didn’t mention it, never even asked where the ring was. THEN I discover last month he had recently had a 6 month affair with a local woman – I decided to swollow what pride I has left and wanted to give it another go (why I don’t know) He spoke to me about his feelings for the first time in a long time and said he loved me and wanted to come back, that things would be different now we both knew what the other needed (I needed security and he needed more sex – go figure!)
It’s only been a few weeks since this all came out so I’m still feeling pretty raw BUT – He’s back to the same old routine, refuses to talk about the future to the point the he physically turns his back on me. pretends to be asleep or leaves hours early for ‘work’
Sadly I’m coming to the conclusion We’ll never marry, or move home, or have children, I’ll always have the feeling he may just leave today or tomorrow, he has ‘his’ life and I have mine.
Is there any hope? Or am I deluding myself?
I’m such a mess and at the moment pretty fearful of the future.
Hi ToxicShock- Welcome to the site and conversation.
You asked, so I’m going to tell you straight up- Run! It’s quite obvious he has no intention on carrying through with his promises and if he’s cheated on you already, I doubt that he’ll be faithful for years to come. They are really good at hooking us in with their ways of letting us think we’re going to get what we want, but as you said you’re already back to the same old crap. I’m afraid that’s how it will always be. Also his turning his back on you is a very typical PA behavior. You may have the feeling that it’s happening now because of you pushing the issue of a future, but I assure you if it wasn’t that it would be something else. I’m actually very surprised that he would be stating he needs more sex. Most of the time their lack of sex in a relationship is from their own withholding. I know with my passive aggressive, as soon as I quit initiating sex, it stopped completely even though I would tell him over and over I needed him to reach for me once in awhile, or that it was ok for him to make a move.
I’m sorry to say but if I were you I would follow your gut instinct. If you want the commitment of marriage, children, etc. and it’s been 8 years already, I would say you have done your time. There is a man out there that is looking for a woman that wants all of those things because he does and he’ll be happy to discuss and actually do them with you because he loves you so much. Allow yourself to be happy. If you stay where you are, do what you’ve always done, you’re just going to get more of what you’ve always gotten. (Not sure about the grammar there. LOL)
Good luck in what ever you decide. Feel free to come back and share how you’re doing or let off a little steam if need be. We all learn from or at the very least support each other. You have to when you’re all kind of in the same boat. LOL
Toxicshock,
DON’T DO IT TO YOURSELF!!!!!
Run like the devil’s chasing you! You can do it! Love yourself! Read your sisters’ stories and get ghost!! You can do it! We can do it!
Unless of course you are willing to put up with many, many more years of what you have now, realizing that he most probably will never change.
Be strong sisters!! We can do it.
Ladybeams, I love this blog; wish I’d discovered 2 years ago when I thought I was the crazy one!
Peace
CeCe
CeCe- Thanks so much for the sage advice for Toxicshock. I hope she comes back to see it.
Also, thanks for the compliment. Obviously you’ve learned you weren’t the “crazy one” after all. LOL. Good for you. You’re right. We can be strong, and almost every day some one new joins our group here. By sharing, supporting each other, and all of us standing together it makes us pretty hard to beat down.
Thank you again for the comment and would love to hear how you finally escaped, or what the turning point was for you when you decided you had had enough.
I am so glad I found this site! Thank you!
It’s been a few weeks since I wrote and have read the responses. It feels good to have some sort of place to go and see other’s responses and situations with a PA.
Update on me is that we have been seeing a counselor over the past 2 months. I almost threw in the towel and called off the counselor 2 weeks ago because it was disturbing me the day of the meeting and then it disturbed me all weekend long over the things the counselor would say. I don’t know how many 26 year marriages she has counseld. but anyway…I was disturbed. He, the PA, saw that I did not show up for last meeting. All weekend long he texted me to see him, to talk. After 26 years of marriage, he knows how to work me.
So the last couple weeks I went back to counseling with him.
I’m accepting the fact, he is who he is. A PA. I am who I am. The house is in both our names and it is ‘toast’ so to speak. His inconsideration of my financial future or my job prospects due to working in the financial field are slim… It’s hard for a woman to accept the fact that the person she married when she was 18 years old and spent all this time with would bury their head in the ground over ‘to sell’ or ‘not to sell’!
Anyway it is ‘toast’. And what I’ve learned is that people don’t do things ‘to you’ they ‘do things for themselves’. You’re probably right, he was affraid If we sold 3-4 years ago, that I’d leave him. What I should have done was filed divorce and forced him to sell. But I didn’t.
So I am looking at the fact that I’ve spent 26 years with this man. Yes, he is making an effort to redeem himself in the typical, it’s a ‘Honeymoon’ fashion. I do love him and yes it’s hard emotionally to watch your child miss his daddy.
My new solution is to seperate the house bills from personal bills. We have a new checking account that requires deposits each paycheck to equal each one’s share of the bills, split down the middle.
The teenager will graduate in 3 years. Hopefully get into college or join military.
I will make my 401k healthy, before taxes, over the next 3 years. Save as much money as possible, by sharing our now ‘downscaled’ lifestyle. I told him to do the same. But whatever he does with his ‘leftover’ money is all his to decide what to do with! And so is mine! No more comingling of funds. I did that for 26 years. What an idiot!!!!! Women, take control of your financial future. He won’t.
He could care less that his credit is in the toilet. He works in a field that they don’t care what his credit looks like. And as far as he’s concerned, he would live in a single wide mobile home, happily, as long as I’m there next to him….ha ha…
Question is, is that what I want? And that my friends is ‘He$$ to the NO’!
Hi SSL- So glad you made it back and I’m glad you’re getting good use out of the site.
You know, My Dear, if you’re not happy with your therapist, you can always look for another one. It’s not a “one size fits all” and sometimes it just doesn’t work with one personality-wise. If you and your husband are seeing this counselor separately than it should be easier for you to see someone you feel good with. You didn’t say exactly what was said that bothered you or why it bothered you. If it bothered you because of having to face some truths you’ve let hide away all these years, than it’s a good thing. If it’s because you feel the counselor is not connecting with you or your situation, that’s not so good. How is the husband dealing with the counselor? Is the counselor making him deal with his stuff?
You are right about a woman having to take care of her finances. I’m sure I’ve said here often that a woman should have her own little savings somewhere that the husband knows nothing about. You just never know. Unfortunately for a lot of us we start out that way and then end up using it all for some household emergency. That’s not what it’s for people. It sounds like your getting a handle on everything now. Who is going to be responsible to pay the household bills? (I mean actually see to it they get paid). I hope that’s you. You know if it’s him it won’t be long you’ll be finding out he skipped this bill or hasn’t paid that one. That’s just how they are, especially if he thinks hurting your credit is a way to keep you. It’s also good that you’ll be able to show you pay for your 401K yourself, otherwise if or when you split, he’s entitled to half. Just like you said, co-mingled funds.
I wish you all the luck in the world with the counseling etc. It would be wonderful if it could get you guys back on the right track. 26 years is a long time, and it’s even more so when you still love him.
Be good to yourself, and stop back to say “hi” anytime. Love hearing people who are digging their way out. It’s inspiring. Of course if you need to talk about when it seems to be going downhill, feel free to vent then also. Maybe we can help hold you up. LOL
Oh, on the selling of the house. Over the past 3-4 years, I put his ‘For Sale’ sign in the yard (he’s a relator), he pulls it out. He puts the house on MLS at a price that is top of the market and at an asking price over what anyone would buy it for, he is constantly busy so he did not have to confront the issue. It was on MLS afterall, right?
Unless, he is in your corner, it is not going to happen.
I did visit a divorce lawyer 3 weeks ago who informed me, back 3-4 years ago when we might have been able to ‘Save’ the house- he could have gotten a court order for him to pay me his half of the mortgage. Divorce decree could have ordered him to sell the house and it would not have been his listing. Meaning he would not have had total control of the price/listing of the house.
He is trying to mend his ways…but now we have a yard sale to sell the remaining stuff in the house. His stuff, I have one thing over there.
because I moved to a place that only accomadated my teenager and I.
It still irritates me, that again, I have made his transition smooth. From the house to the apartment. Everything is all set up for him. And when I think too hard on this, I ask myself, why am I such an idiot?
I told him a month ago that he needed to find a nice place for the three of us…that this place was too small. That he could find the place, pay the deposit and get the electric on, moving truck, etc… just like I had to for this small apartment the teenager and I are in… this is what disturbes me. Why am I the one who sets things all up for us. It’s always been this way. He makes less money than I do, but any little bit would help.
I didn’t go through on the divorce because of the $1k retainer. He has not given me one red cent since I left him. But he has buttered me up with the assistance of the counselor. It feels like a coup. Think thats how you spell it…
Dear SSL- Well, hopefully the lawyer told you basically what to do from here on instead of just what you should have done that you can’t do anything about now. LOL. Good old hindsight 20/20 can tell you that. It’s good that you went to talk to one and get an idea of cost, etc.
Don’t beat yourself up too bad for helping him so much. When you’ve done it for as long as you have for him, it’s like any other habit. It’s hard to break, but you need to. Not only for you but for him also. Maybe if he is stuck to deal with his own lack of action and the consequences he’ll be forced to do something. He should be getting a clue now that you and your child aren’t living with him anymore. If he starts talking reconciling, just tell him it’s obvious he’s not serious or he would be doing something about having a place large enough for all of you to live together. I hate to say it, but you’ve come this far. This is sort of where the “rubber meets the road” so to speak. If you feel like that counselor is working against you and not making your husband realize his lack of responsibility in the relationship, then it’s definitely time to find your own counselor that will support you and what’s best for you and your teenager. I’m sure you already know the teenage years are already hard to keep them on the right path. It’ll help a lot when you’re good with the path your on also.
Your in my thoughts and prayers, and good luck. Just think, you’ve got a good start. He has a choice on where it goes from here. He’s lucky after all these years you can still say you love him.
Hi there – I recently have been evaluating some of my past relationships and am realizing that I often end up with passive aggressive men. These are usually long, drawn out affairs that lack true commitment. I am now in therapy to try and get to the root of what my role in choosing this type of partner is – and why I stay so long.
Is it normal for a PA person to have longlasting committed relationships? the reason I ask is I have observed my own relationships with PA men last years…. but are stormy with breakups etc etc and never really “commit”. A few do get into “committed” relationships but they do not seem to last even 6 months.
Just wondering if there is a trend here. The last PA man I dated over a period of 5 years is now in a “new, committed” relationship with someone and I am running for the hills – in my experience these types don’t stay committed long (whether or not the girlfriends know this or not i have no idea) and begin contacting me to “hang out”. Before long (historically), i’m sucked back in.
This was a very helpful website – thanks!
Hi Shannon- Glad you decided to join us. Welcome.
PA men do commit as best they can. My PA told me when we got together he was a “sticker” meaning he would never leave once he gets into something. The difference is even if they do commit, they don’t know how to connect, which means they really never commit from the heart. Even though we’ve been together for 10 years there is always some lame excuse for not getting married, which after being with him I don’t want to any more, but the bottom line remains the same.
Glad to hear you’re in therapy. We do have a tendency to keep going back to the same type of men, and what ever you can do to break that cycle is a good thing.
Please stop by again and let us know how you’re doing. I’m glad you find the site helpful. It’s from everyone’s contributions to the whole.
thanks
the times i find it a real struggle are when I feel like I spent years trying with someone who will “do better” for another or with another. reading your blog and looking at the situation as a whole help me realize that…. I got the best, there is no “do better” that lasts. maybe try harder, maybe manipulate better or use different words…. i got very jealous when i found out my ex is in a new relationship, and seems to be trying harder with her. i can step back and say – k this is really an illusion i am making up, they likely have the same dynamic (or will after the honeymoon phase ends). right now that’s what gives me the most struggle.
Hi Shannon- So glad to see you again, and if it helps any, you’re absolutely right. This is only the beginning. Remember how it was with the two of you in the beginning? Did you ever ask him what was the longest he’d been in a relationship? Or why those relationships broke up? Not to worry. You may think he’s trying harder, but he’s probably just using the same old tactics that have worked for him in the past, and once that’s over, it’ll be over. Trust me, you’re not missing anything.
Go out and celebrate life! Celebrate who you are! Celebrate your freedom! I know it’s easier said than done, but don’t worry about what he’s doing. Remind yourself how lucky you are that you’re not like so many of us here that only learn after years of wasted years. U go girl! You now have a chance to write a new script. Choose high self-worth and better treatment, and now you’re smart enough to not get caught in that trap again.
Write down on a piece of paper exactly (exactly) what you want in a man, and then send it out to the Universe. I know, you probably think I’m crazy, but I’ve actually seen it work. LOL. I’m serious. All of a sudden different men will start appearing before you, or in a different way than you had seen them before, and while it may take a little while, you will find what you’re looking for. That’s why I said be exact. You know that old saying “Be careful what you wish for”.
Good luck My Dear, and remember every day that you are special. You deserve to be treated as such.