Leaving The Passive Aggressive- Now What?

angry couple face offI’ve been asked what to expect once you’ve decided you’re leaving the passive aggressive spouse or partner. Being passive aggressive, they can actually move in two or three different directions, but they are still pretty predictable once you are prepared for all and can figure in which way he/she is moving.

I should warn you that if this is your choice, you should be well prepared ahead of time. The things that are very important to you you should slowly be packing away somewhere so they are easy to move out fast once you break the news. Remember that most stuff is just that, stuff. It can be replaced. Things that belonged to your grandmother cannot. Be real on what you really want and need.

Squirrel some money away. You don’t have to take thousands from the grocery money every month, but $20 here, $20 there, adds up. No matter what they say about “Money not buying happiness” it makes life a whole lot easier if you have some, even if you’re just moving in with family.

If you’re leaving the passive aggressive, you cannot expect him to be co-operative. He may, if he’s the 1st kind I’m going to talk about below, but don’t expect it. He’s used to punishing you for his parents mistakes, he’s certainly not going to be easier on you now that he figures in his mind that you’ve “wronged” him.

1) The first kind of passive aggressive will just pretty basically walk away. Think about it. He was never really connected to you anyway. The reason you’re probably leaving is because there’s no affection any more, no intimacy, not much of anything. It’s a little bruising to our ego that he doesn’t even try to get us back, but it’s the way they are. Even if his heart is breaking inside, you will probably never know it. He would never admit. He’ll not do anything to fix it. He is the victim. This is also one of the ways he figures he can punish you. He just moves on.

2) The second way they can act once you’ve decided you’re leaving the passive aggressive, is actually rather hostile. You’re the bitch, he could never please you, get your stuff and get out, you can take your stuff, but only your stuff and nothing else. If you remember, almost everything in your marriage that went wrong was “your fault” whether he cheated on you, or constantly belittled you, what ever it was, don’t expect that to change. And don’t expect them to co-operate in any way. Many times they will fight for something during the divorce that they don’t even want, just to keep you from getting it. At least when you get the blame this time, it will have a better ending in sight.

3) Then there’s the passive aggressive that is oh, so sorry. He’ll change. He’ll do what ever you want, just come back home (or let him come home). “I wouldn’t have been that way if you had just…” and it’s still all about what you did wrong. If they agree to change, or see a therapist or what ever it is you’re asking of them, it is usually only a temporary ploy. The same kind of temporary ploy they used to land you in the first place. Once they feel they are back on secure ground, all the changes go out the window.

It is not unusual to be talking about what needs to happen with a passive aggressive, you’re to the point that you’re willing to share a house again, and he will turn the tables on you. All of a sudden, he isn’t sure he wants to come back, or he wants you to concede that most everything is your fault and you will change. Remember, the bottom line of almost any passive aggressive is that everything is always someone else’s fault. They rarely take any responsibility for anything going wrong, in their marriage, in their job, in their lives.

If you have children, you can either expect him to fight for custody, and should he win, within a short time you’ll get the kids most of the time anyway, because generally he doesn’t really want them all the time. He just wants to punish you. Or, he will rarely see them, or be late for every visitation, or call frequently to change plans. Really not much different then when you were married to him and he “forgot” to pick up the kids, etc. The only difference now is you don’t have to live with it 24/7. Don’t think he’s going to be any different once you’ve left him than he always was.

I hope this helps a little. Of course each situation is different because each person is different. These are just the basics. If you have any comments or questions, feel free. The one thing I will say about leaving a passive aggressiveis that once you are out for good, I haven’t known a whole lot of the “escapees” that would go back. LOL

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160 Responses

  1. Hi Ladybeams! I just saw your article/posting, and am thankful I saw it tonight. It’s such a relief that you laid out their behavior, as my husband is the classic bullet point #1. Right now, anyways. More of this will come out in the divorce, I’m sure.

    Your insight has brightened my day. Remember, he never spoke to me for over a month (we were apart that long too), and he showed up to our talk regarding what to do next in our relationship, completely cold and non-emotional. He had clearly made up his mind, and you’re right – he’s not going to fix it, hes’ the “victim and shouldnt have gotten married anyway”. It is definitely sad that our marriage is going to end, and I’m going through these feelings of grief (even tho I know I don’t love him any longer, but I do care about him). I’m actually surprised how my emotions have been since Sunday when we decided to divorce. I didnt expect to be this sad or bummed out. It’s the right decision, no doubt, but maybe it’s because I actually have feelings and didnt construct a wall of silence like he did.

    I believe he also enjoys me going through these feelings – I cried when we spoke about divorce, and you’re right, it was a bruise to my ego – he relishes in that. Thank you for pointing that out. He did in fact admit multiple times over the years that when he made me angry it showed him that I loved him. (WHAT??!!!!) These men are really something else, arent they?!

    Thanks for listening, writing and being there for me and others. You lifted my mood this evening. :) Best to you!

    • Cj- I’m so glad to be of any help.

      It’s not unusual to be saddened even though you no longer love your husband. You are still losing someone and a relationship that you cared deeply about at one time. It’s always sad to have to say “goodbye” to that. You have a right to allow yourself to grieve, but it doesn’t mean you’re making a bad decision. It just means that a part of your life is dying, and in that sense many times part of the old has to die to make room for the new. You are perfectly normal. I would think you maybe a little cold if you didn’t feel anything. I can understand that when it’s a couple that is at each other’s throats all of the time, or splitting over some big fight, but not when things just sort of slipped away.

      Even when we hate them when we leave, at one time they held our love in their hands and a special place in our hearts. They probably always will have a little spot in our hearts, to a certain extent. It’s a little sad anytime you have to let go of yesterday to say hello to tomorrow. I hope this didn’t bring you down again after you saying I lifted you up tonite. LOL.

      Please keep in touch. Love to hear how you’re doing, and definitely here if you need to vent, talk, cry, etc.

      • Hi ladybeams,

        I ran across your blog as I still subscribe to your messages but haven’t read posts in a long time. I wanted to thank you again for your insight and advice, and here’s why.

        Our divorce was final March 2011, and since then, my ex-husband who exhibited absolutely classic stereotypical behavior of being passive- aggressive, has been the most kind and loving person to me and my family. He treats me better now than when we were together for 10 years. It’s just odd behavior, and I’m not complaining because we do have a great relationship which makes it easier on our friends because at times we are in the same social circles, but my question to you is…have you experienced this behavior from other posts on your blog? And, if so, what’s your advice?

        On one hand, I look at our current relationship and think to myself how wonderful it would have been if he would’ve treated me like this while we were married/together. Then, on the other hand, I think at his core, he is still going to be passive aggressive until HE decides to actually change. (Which I don’t believe he ever will b/c in his eyes he is always right and others are at fault/need to change). I read your advice and it focuses me to look at the whole picture, not just the “nice” treatment I experience now. I’m not going to lie, it’s emotionally tough to sometimes deal with this. Any advice and insight would be greatly appreciated :)

        Thank you! Hugs, CJ

        • HI CJ,

          I am just a few steps behind you with my separation….we have been separated for 3 months now and I am experiencing exactly what you are describing! He is behaving much better now that I have gotten him out of the house…and is doing everything in his power to get me back and try to be sweet and kind….he NEVER was like that when he thought he had the upper hand!! He did not treat me this way at all when we were married for 18 years! So I don’t want to fall for it now, but I am tempted, as he is presenting quite a “honeymoon phase’ to me now. I just wanted to let you know that you are not alone! I think we have lost trust in them, and do not believe that if we go back to them they will change…….they will revert back to their old ways (abusive personality). That is my concern……and I don’t want to be taken back to that scenario. It is sad that we lose this long term relationship that we invested so much into…….I will pray for you and keep in touch!
          Thank you!
          .

          • A friend sent me this. ” Sometimes giving someone a second chance is like giving them another bullet because they missed you the first time”.

        • Don’t get dragged back into a relationship again. See what happens if you do.??

        • After 3 1/2 years post separation my ex is extremely amicable as you have described above CJ yet every now and then The PA shows up .Like when we were at an event for my daughter he got me coffee with sugar when he had asked what I wanted and I said “tea please”(and from 13 years with me he KNOWS I don’t have instant coffee/ or sugar in anything) and I had asked for tea.He has now asked to get a divorce so we will see what happens when its time to sign :)

      • Hi! Of course not, no “bringing me down”, in fact, an uplifting email is exactly what I needed. It’s so refreshing to know ,now, and reminded of, how a partner or former partner acts being passive aggressive. It’s like I needed the reminder of how the behavior affects me.

        Perfect example: recently i experienced a loss of a family member, and one that my ex was close to as well. He showed me love, support, etc., and of course I told him I truly appreciated him being there etc., then when it he figured I was vulnerable, meaning that I expressed loving words to him in return, he “disappears”, meaning, no communication, etc. Before I learned the behavior pattern of PA people, I would have been so confused, mad and hurt. Now, I immediately recognized the pattern of behavior and not let it get to me. I was so happy to have the ability to recognize the situation and not let it hurt me. Additionally, this latest “scenario” is an example that he hasn’t changed and until HE recognizes he’s got a problem, this type of behavior will always be his “M.O.”

        Thank you for being a supportive network for those of us who deal with this at times. It’s tough and it’s nice to know there are others who experience the same thing.

        Have a great weekend!

        • I dated a pa man for almost two years, at the beginning I thought I can’t believe I met such a nice man, halfway thru I started to feel unloved, no emotions or empathy for anything, after I couldn’t take the heartbreak and feeling bad about myself I confronted him and I never heard from him again, I was shunned forever, I stood by him thru cancer, never a thank you or I am sorry for the hurtful things he did, he favorite type of abuse was the silent treatment, I had to beg him to talk to me, I am glad I found this website, he is a true pa man, and I no longer dwell what did I do.

      • Thank you, Thank you and more thank you’s for this amazing blog.

        If it wasn’t for you guys here I think I might have gone insane!!! I had no idea that PA could be so deadly. And it is. It kills people slowly by depriving them of love, affection, companionship and the wonderful gift of life. And if not treated they are gonna die very lonely people. That I believe in my heart.

        I have recently broken up with my PA boyfriend, who is also and alcoholic sober (I use that term loosely) for 22 yrs. I fell in love with that man the 1st month we were together and the relationship moved very quickly from there. He move in and here I am 8 months later miserable. The guise he put on soon dissapeared,but I was hooked!!!

        I did everything I could think of to make things better, special sheets on the bed, dinner every night, doing everything he hasn’t had in years nothing worked, in fact they got worse. The withholding of intimacy and affection, the non-verbal/one sided conversations grew worse every day. I knew nothing of PA disorder until I was complaining to my girlfriend and she said “:that sounds so PA” And it dawned on me…he was. He was adopted @ the age of 3 by alcoholic parents, the father being horribly abusive in every way and the mother not being a mother either. His whole childhood a nightmare! And so the beat goes on.

        My boyfriend is classic #1 with a little sprinkle of the others added. I received an education here and and understanding of this disorder. It’s amazing how I lowered the bar everyday, sacrificing myself self respect and my expectations.

        I’m still crying everyday,but not for the same reason, my ego is smashed by him because he’s not fighting for what he wants. And I want him to, but that is certainly not gonna happen. This I know. He’s just letting everything “slip away” and that really hurts. So much in fact I have had a headache for the last 5 days, since I asked him to leave. I had been working up to it for quite some time now, praying for the strength to do it. Sick as it may sound I was almost willing to deal with it, (I can fix him). But I imagined my life 5 yrs from now and it wasn’t pretty. I knew if I felt this way now it wasn’t gonna get any better. Just worse.

        I am so angry and saddened for him that this is his life. And he knows he needs help, but is too stubborn to go back to therapy. He had been in therapy for years at one time. But I think he’s just too darn stubborn to let go and dive into this therapy with everything he’s got. He see it as a sign of weakness and embarrassment.

        But, with your help and the other people here it has shed so much light on everything. I know my hurt will subside in time. And I’m gonna be alright. Before I didn’t know what was wrong. And what a load off my back when I found this blog. I can not express to you my thanks enough. Thank you again for showing me the whole story.

        Jen

    • Don’t look back ….get out!
      I divorced a p.a. man…..and am lucky to escape with my sanity.

    • Hi, educating myself on PA. My husband of 30 years retired, things got really bad. Then I discoverd he has PA (his father as well).
      I am responsible for everything. He will not take responsibility for his actions or words.
      He provokes fights so he can leave (for days, sometimes months). I had enough this past Dec.
      I told him to leave. He got up and packed a dufflel and could not get out of the house fast enough.
      Why do I have such concern for him? I did file for divorce. papers came today. I cried all day.
      30 years. what a waste. I feel used, abused.
      He shows no emotion or compassion. He says this is hard on him, everything is about him.
      His actions dont coincide with his words, drives me insame.
      But still, I dont know why I still care about him. I dont want him back, I dont trust him. He called 11 days after he left. I said I was filing for divorce, he had the gall to ask how much was in my 401K.
      I told him if he went after my 401K I would go after his pension.
      I feel like I am living in a nightmare, I cannot believe this is all happening. I pray,…the good Lord will walk with me through this hell I am living in.

      • Mary – you are mourning a loss. This was your way of living for 30 yrs. The P/A wants to hurt you and control you any way possible. I was aghast that my husband wants alimony. And is going for it. Best part…he did not realize by elongating the divorce and I pay the bills, this goes towards his support. It will be taken off his support payments. A little joy for me. Yes, I will be giving up part of my 401(K) too. But do you seriously want to continue to live this way? I do not. So count your blessings and let the games begin. Believe me, they will zing you from out of left field when you least expect them to.

  2. I feel like I am living in some sort of Orwellian world. I had a whirlwind romance when I was young and married someone who was passive-aggressive who also had Borderline Personality Disorder. Within 24 hours of moving in, I saw the real person behind the mask and thought to myself I had made a huge mistake. She was a raging inferno exhibiting qualities of both BPD and PA. My ego kept me from admitting I had no idea what I had done and didn’t even know the person I had married. So, I stayed for five years of living hell. Often times keeping my keys on the night stand so when the night rages came, I could jump in the car and head to a hotel. I stayed with her not because I loved her but because she manipulated me with threats of suicide and that she needed me in between raging on me and blaming me for her sickness. She manipulated her psychiatrist like a trainer would manipulate a Toy Poodle.

    Ultimately when I got out, I had to hire a criminal attorney for guidance because when she knew I was leaving, I deserved all of the vengeance she could muster against me. There were threats and rages and lies and it was a holy hell. But, I got out, realized my own shortcomings of why I had put up with this behavior and went on to have a productive life and productive relationships for the next 12 years. Met the woman of my dreams but then personal tragedy struck.

    So, I was back on the dating scene and used an online service. Met a wonderful woman who was charming, witty and seemingly normal. But from the beginning something was wrong. After two months, the relationship exposed itself for what it was. She too was passive-aggressive. And it was a very deep PA as well. Although she is a partially functioning adult with a career and kids. Although the kids are a mess.

    When I put 2 and 2 together, I told her I cared for her but I needed her to respectfully commit to maintaining her 50% of a healthy relationship. She immediately withdrew even further and simply disappeared.

    My point in all of this is PAs cannot maintain any sense of normalcy in a relationship and if someone knows what they are looking for, the symptoms are so obvious you can drive a truck through them. When I was young and naive, I had no concept of mental illness or behavioral problems because I grew up in a relatively normal dysfunctional family. Haha. And online dating services are often a bastion for people with serious problems. On the internet, passive aggressives thrive. And you can be whomever you want to be. That is, until you need to engage in the real world and a relationship.

    Thanks for the blog. I am trying to get my bearings again and your blog helped. My first mistake in life was due to my naivety and ego. The second I realized the dynamics almost immediately and set a healthy boundary she could not or would not meet. So, I was very fond of her but realize the future hell of sacrificing my emotional well-being and boundaries. Your posts are a reminder of the real world consequences of PAs and the people they destroy.

    • Anon- Thank you for sharing your story. It is such a shame that unless you grew up in the middle of it, more people don’t understand the different forms of mental illness. What’s really sad is I advise people to try counseling and like you, I get many stories back where the passive aggressive has just manipulated the therapist. Now I mostly recommend therapy for a person singularly for support than I do for couples.

      I’m sorry to read that after finally getting out of a bad situation into a good one, that it was torn apart by tragedy. What’s that old saying about “only the good die young”? I’m very sorry for your loss.

      I am happy to hear though that you have taken your learned wisdom from hard knocks and are using it effectively to not wind up in the same situation. I am curious as to which online service you were using. I always thought if I was going to do that I would probably try e-harmony because their questionairre goes so far in depth. Far enough in depth to turn down one of my girlfriends. LOL. Gave some poor guy a break.

      I’m glad to hear you find the blog helpful. Good luck to you and your new journey. Feel free to stop in anytime and let us know how it’s going. I have so many nice ladies that are always asking if there are still any nice guys out there that really want a healthy, loving, committed relationship. You’re living proof. LOL

  3. Thanks for the reply and the kind words. It’s really quite hard not to learn from my experiences since they were so severely destructive.

    Are there men out there that want a health relationship? Well, I have the opposite question. How many women are self-aware enough to embrace relationships based on respect, admiration and healthy boundaries? It’s a two way street and there are plenty of people looking for love but very few on either side who know that first involves loving themselves and not attempting to get what they want through some dysfunctional dynamic of control. Because really unhealthy relationships seek the intent of control rather than learning. And there are tons of both men and women with control problems because that is the only dynamic most anyone learns as a child in our battle for control with our parents.

    Good luck!

    • Anon- Amen, Brother! Very well put.
      Thanks again for your (wise) input. Drop in some time and let us know how it’s going in the “dating” world for you. Always good for all of us to hear from someone who made it to the other side. LOL.

  4. [...] by ladybeams Due to a comment left on the blog, I got to thinking about my original post “Leaving The Passive Aggressive“. While we all know divorce isn’t easy on anyone, we all hope to go through it without [...]

  5. After almost 12 yrs of marriage (+4 yrs dating), I have decided to get a divorce. I married a psycho Felix Unger (think of “Sleeping With the Enemy” sans the physical violence). A month ago & from searching on the web, I found out I was not alone! I found out that he is a textbook passive-aggressive/obstructionist. When he’s mad, upset, doesn’t get his way, he just shuts down, gives me the silent treatment, then does something spiteful to get me back– usually emotional manipulation & punishment. After consistently trying for 14 out of the 16 yrs together & finally realizing I don’t love him, I want a divorce.

    So, how do you ask someone who cannot express emotions, a control freak, does not see his own contribution to the issue, cannot communicate, shuts down & is spiteful, for a divorce? How do I get this passive-aggressive/obstructionist man agree to giving me my freedom without emotionally torturing me in the process? The worst part is that, due to our financial situation, we are most likely going to have to live together through the divorce process.

    P.S. If you want the depressing details of how I got here, look my username up in http://www.firstwivesworld.com. I have recently found the courage to take the 1st step by publicly admitting my situation on the blog…

    • I have lived with a PA man for over 19 years now. I am 9 1/2 years his senior and he uses that to his advantage. my advice is to get out asap! what a waste of time, health and life! Since we’ve been together, my health has gone downhill, we have claimed bankruptcy and I have lost my children from a former abusive relationship. I am now stuck, on disability, making a little over 1,000 a month and cannot survive on my own. he has alienated me from my family and my daughters by his acts of violence. He even had me stuck at home without a car for 6 years while he drove it to work 8 miles away and it stayed in the parking lot all day. My oldest daughter will not let me see my
      grandson because of his behavior. I’ve had to lie to so many different people to “save face” and he stays home and lets me deal and give excuses for his absences. The only saving factor is my church family. Now he is threatening to leave the church because “they don’t think like he does”. We have done this twice! The first time I was getting alot of attention by singing in different groups and being a Sunday school teacher. He like to hurt me by looking at younger more beautiful women (internet and real) making me feel inferior. What was I thinking. Please pray for me to find a way out.

      • HI Michelle,

        My PA husband does the same thing. He even got mad at my church family because he “expected more kindness” after they knew what he had done (cheated and abandoned us). He gets furious when people talk down about him, shows no remorse and acts very cold toward me.

        We are in the silent treatment phase again because for some reason I try to actually talk to him about it. He switched from believing he is PA and now doesn’t want anything to do with it. I am trying to give our marriage a chance, for real, maybe because of the people we used to be and our child? I am a child of divorce and though it’s been over a decade, stil have pain and so do my parents-my father, anyway, who was the “left spouse”.

        He has had a long term fling that he thinks is so real he may be willing to toss twenty years out the window, a home we built and his reputation and family standing…he is from a long line of Polish/Irish immigrants who are very Roman Catholic, to boot! He is angry at any of them who don’t approve of what he has done.

        I am trying to believe people who say “it is not your fault!”, to me, but I feel like I could have done anything to keep him home? The more I read about the topic, though, the more I realize I could not have, no matter what. And this …floozy won’t be able to do it for long, I don’t think?

        I find him an extreme narcissist also, and want to ask if anyone thinks tthis may be part of the sense of coldness they extend to us?

        Thank you for cyber listening. It helps to journal in this way and feels less alone, in my island of a house in the woods.

    • I divorced my PA man in June, he left us in December. After cleaning out the house of his stuff, moving pictures, etc. I saw the retaliations he did. It is quite scary. If you are thinking or even bringing up divorce to him when you are mad….wrong way to go about it. I brought up divorce years ago, thinking that would shake him up to change his behavior (I did not know he was PA at the time), it did not shake him up, instead, I got more silent treatments and of course retaliations to the house we live in. I am coming across more and more. These people are very seriously damaged and need a lot of help, but of course, everything in their eyes is someone else’s fault. They have and will never accept responsibility for their actions or behaviors. It gets worse the older they get. If you are newly married and see this in your husband, get him help immediately, if he refuses, seriously think about the alternative. I stayed 30 years to long.

  6. I’m new to this type of thing, so here goes. I met this wonderful loving fun younger guy through neighours. After 12 years (2 dating 10 married) of wondering what was wrong with me and how everything was my fault, i have had enough! We’ve separated so many times the last time we got back together i didn’t tell anyone that we had. He visited some mutual friends a few days later and told them that he was fine with the end and at peace with it. The next weekend he visited the same couple and wasn’t so ok with it so it seems, he started to tell them that i had ruined all his friendships and destroyed his relationships with his family (he had no friends and his family left him years ago in fact haven’t had contact with him in over 4 years now) He also intimated that i was keeping his stuff and all he had was the clothes on his back (he refused to come and get them after i packed them as we live separately he had a lot of his clothes at his own apartment) He then proceeded to attempt to ruin the friendships that were originally mine by telling my girlfriend that i hated her and wanted nothing further to do with her, all after his man friend went into the house and he couldn’t hear him saying this crap. Is this normal and should i be prepared for something and what might that be…at this time i can’t put my finger on other things all a bit worse then the last! He is totally alone he has no friends, his family wants nothing to do with him, and his job is a source of constant bitterness. He lives pretty close to me.

    • Heather- Hi! and welcome.

      I’m sorry to say My Dear, but if he’s acting like this already, you should probably be prepared for almost anything except probably an actual face to face confrontation. PA’s don’t usually go for the face to face stuff. They will tell you one thing and as you are finding out, tell everyone else something totally different. I’m afraid it’s not unusual that he is trying to cut you off from your friends and woo them to his side. If his own family and friends have cut him off in the past, he’s probably in panic mode now that you two have split, that your friends are going to cut him off also. No excuse, but typical. He will play the victim to the hilt in order to manipulate any one who will listen. You’re lucky your girlfriend told you what he had said instead of just believing him and disconnecting from you. We’re not always so lucky.

      At least he already has his own place, so that’s one thing you don’t have to worry about is getting him out. I would tell him again about getting the rest of his stuff from your place and try to completely disconnect from him. It’s a shame he lives close to you as he probably will behave sort of like a stalker in the beginning. If you can’t arrange for him to get his stuff than I would just tell him you’re putting it outside, and if he wants it he better come get it before someone else does. Or you could take it and drop it off at his apartment. After clearing the rest of his things out, I wouldn’t look back.

      From there on in, all communication should take place between lawyers. If you have anything jointly with him you need to protect yourself. Any joint credit cards you need to get your name off of if you’re an authorized user on his, and get his name off if he’s an authorized user on yours. I would think since you two have gone so far in the past that you each have your own apt. that you have already done most of this stuff, but just in case. You should know that he will probably not co-operate with you in regards to a divorce. He’ll make appointments he won’t keep, etc. He most likely won’t make it easy for you.

      I wish you all the luck in the world. Even when you’re “done” it’s still hard sometimes. If you read through some of the comments here, you’ll see entries from a few that have made it “out” and are very happy for doing so. Feel free to stop by anytime. We love to hear how you’re doing, or sometimes you just need a safe place to rant. You’re welcome here either way.

      • Hey Ladybeams…..Looking back now i wonder is it normal for them to cling onto you and look to you for their every need? My gf doesn’t believe most of what comes out of his mouth, but her live in boyfriend does the majority of the time. There is going to be a lot of confusion there for a while i’m assuming. He’s gone over there on a number of occasions during our separations and said things like that, and i’ve maintained the same story each time. In regards to joint stuff that was taken care of by me when we separated the first time, that’s all covered. When i told him i couldn’t stand this anymore, i told him to come and get his stuff but as usual he wouldn’t. I took it upon myself to deliever his clothes to him personally and did not give him a chance to talk to me. That i presume was when he went into panic mode, i’ve never done anything like that before. I used to hope that he’d come and get his stuff and that we could talk, and fix things. In the past when we’d separate he’d admit that he was watching me, but i never saw him in the act of it so i would have no idea if he’s doing that now, is he? I would have to say that i’m in the middle of my own panic mode. It’s been 3 weeks today and i’m really wondering what i’ve done here ( i know it’s the best thing). His longest time away from me is about 3 weeks. Is this time any different then the others, should i expect some kind of contact? I’ve never felt this out of it before, and no one knows what to say to me. I’m so angry i can’t see straight. He works and makes ok money his rent was really low mine is too. He did everything here, eat, tv, shower, got his clothes washed, internet, home phone, i supplied him with a cell he used any way he wanted even though we shared the plan, i took him coffee at lunch. He didn’t lift a finger to help while he was here, would get here after work to late to help get dinner ready, but seemed to think he could have as much as he wanted. He’d sorta clean up after dinner i had to finish it at the end of the night, the rest of his night was sitting in front of the computer playing games. He thought his fair share for that level of service was $50 to $100 per week, i bought all the food and he told me what he needed to take home out of that (ie cat litter, bread, lunch meat), most of the time it was over half what he gave me, while he pocketed money for himself. I ran after him like a puppy dog, it never seems like i did enough. i had to beg for affection, attention, conversation, money, and worst of all sex, maybe got that 2 times a month, the last few times it made me feel like a rape victim when it was done. It’s nice to know after all the wandering around on the net that i’m not alone. The worst of it is that i do not have any money to even get the divorce started so will that affect how he behaves towards me as well? i know this is a mess of typing but i’m still really foggy in the head.

  7. So an update on the divorce proceedings…which will be the death of me yet! So I don’t hear from my PA husband for 4 months. I have no idea where he is at. No phone, cell or address. It’s like poof! He has left the face of the earth. So I make arrangements to go on vacation out of the country and send my 2 boys to my mom’s house to visit their grandmother for 3 weeks while I am gone. Great plan right??? Until my attorney hands me an emergency temporary order that my husband does not want me going out of the country and that my son cannot go visit his grandmother. How did he find out??? We know NO mutual friends (because there are none) and I don’t really know any of his friends or even where he is at. Hmmm…he was hacking into my person email. Found out because I had no ink in my printer at home and so emailed itinerary info to my personal email to print at work. Wow! What a low life scumbag does that? Oh yeah, the PA does that.

    So we show up to court the day my children are to leave. He has concocted some story to his attorney about how he wants to watch the child while I’m gone and that I have been taking the child to my husband’s aunt’s house to watch my son. Oh yeah, did I mention that I “did not contact him to get approval to do this”. How was I supposed to when a process server couldn’t serve you because nobody knows where your at??? (lowlife). Anyway, he miraculously changes his story and decides he wants to visit my son and will work out an agreement to settle our marriage. Thank God, this is in a document that was filed with the court saying he will comply. My attorney is being paid well and she is good at what she does. She’s my backbone in all this. Because I get so angry and upset I become jelly so I stand behind her and let her be the b**ch for me.

    So we visit for 3 days only and the last visit was like someone put me in the elevator and pushed the button to hell. It was a huge session of WHY we are not together and how divorcing him was the right decision. How I was lucky he didn’t take me into the courtroom and how me and everyone I know is a loser. His PA is only directed to me and I get the whole shebang! So TX is a 60 day wait and on 7/8/10 we will have hit the 90 day marker. His attorney believes his crap and I wonder how long it will take her to figure it out…or ever does. He now claims this aunt is his friend’s mother (so she really isn’t an aunt now is she???) and claims that HE is the one that took my son to her house last year. The woman doesn’t even live in this country. Wow…what an idiot. I’m waiting for him to trip up in his lies. So basically he has admitted to lying to me…flat out. That’s a first for him. I think he tried to impress me during the 3 visits…didn’t work. He smelled like a whore house because of so much cologne and it made me sick, rubbed off on my son and I wanted to barf. He has gotten so full of himself. It is like I married Jekyl and this is Hyde visiting us. My son never asks about him and he is too stupid to realize this. When we left Chuck E. Cheese the 3 year old was done with dad and totally underinterested, wanting to leave with me and my husband looked totally exhausted. I was laughing inside and thinking “you fool, this is my life everyday and you can’t even cope for 3 hours.”

    I’m sticking to my guns and will wait the poor pathetic fool out. Keep y’all posted and I’m anxious to see how it all turns out in the end.

    • Sami- I’m so glad to hear from you! Welcome back.

      Boy, talk about typical. You don’t hear from him for 4 months then you can’t get him to go away, aye? LOL. I’m glad you have a good attorney. As far as his attorney, all that attorney cares about is representing your husband and getting paid. They don’t really care what the truth is. They are just doing a job.

      It sounds like you three are doing quite well without him. What used to amaze me going through something like this is I would miss my ex, sort of self doubt myself, and then all I had to do was be around him for a short time, and I would remember all over again why I left and how much better off I was. Sounds like you went through that in your 3 day visit. So now what? Is he taking another 4 months off from visitation, or do you two have some regular schedule worked out? Hopefully you’ve changed the passwords on everything you have. LOL. They sure pull out all the stops once they get it that they don’t have control over you any more, don’t they?

      Thanks for updating us. My fingers are crossed and prayers are with you. As this goes on, just the reactions of your children are enough to give strength to go forward. How’s the 14 yr. old doing? Hope all is well there also. Does your almost ex include him in the visitation with the 3 yr. old? or is your 14 yr. old even interested?

      • Well…since he verbally/mentally/emotionally abused me, yet again, at the last visit. I pretty much have it in my head that 1) I want child support and 2) no more visiting until you finalize the divorce. Simple as that. You wanna see your son, you have to let me go. I have kind of met someone and my ex now knows of him because of the email account. The new guy was like “so…what’s the problem?” Bless his heart…he has no idea what a loaded question that is. But he does see the ex is NOT normal like the rest of us.

        Anyway, I am sure since he knows about the new possible interest that he is holding out as long as he can to make me miserable. Thing is the new guy is a good man, follows our religion and has waited (and willing to wait). Hubby won’t get that at all.

        As far as the 14 year old goes. I took him the first time and the ex did offer to buy him something. It was about $21 and well after the price came through did not get him anything. The last 2 times, I did not take him because he would get bored eventually and spend all my money (Chuck E. Cheese) because the last visit was 3.5 hours long. Even the little one was tired and done by the time the 3.5 hours was up.

        I remember when I was young my dad called me from time to time but probably didn’t so much because he got us regularly. I can see my ex not calling and not coming around as often as I would expect. I think this is his attempt to make himself look good for others. But others won’t be watching when it’s all over and done with. I know his atty just wants her money, but he doesn’t have much and in the end lies don’t stand up in court when I have witnesses that can show he was never hardly around.

        Again, as for the 14 year old…he doesn’t really seem to care. He didn’t care too much for my ex and it has always been me and the 14 year old as a unit. His real father isn’t around and I have done my best to make sure he knows I love him. He is a good kid and becoming a very good man. At times, he does his manly duty and other times not so much. But I can see him being good as an adult. I do my best. Of course, the ex would say I messed him up…oh like your mother messed you up? Okay that was low, but the truth.

        Anyway, I’ll keep everyone posted. As I sad, it’s day to day and we just have to wait to see how things pan out.

        Take care,
        Sami

        • Sami- I definitely would do just as you say in 1 & 2. I think also it’s time to set some ground rules regarding proper boundaries and behavior during visitation. There is no reason for you to have to take any kind of abuse from him any longer. (There was never any reason to anyway, but even more so now). I know it can, at least here, be put in the divorce about parents not being allowed to be disparaging against the other parent in front of the children. One way to teach him in a hurry is every time he starts to get verbally or emotionally abusive, 1) let him know he has no right to speak to you that way 2)if he continues, just pick up your child and leave. If you are consistent, he will learn he cannot do that to you anymore, but you do have to be consistent.

          I’m so happy you are close with your 14 yr. old. This age and the rest of the teen years are so tuff for a kid to get through and come out on the right side. It’s good he has you.

          Good luck, and I’m always holding you and your little family in my prayers. Please do keep us posted. Love to hear from you.

  8. Ladybeams – thankyou so much for that original post. My husband is no 1 – just walks away. We’ve had a hideous time – I found out 2 months ago he had been emotionally unfaithful to me last summer and lied for nearly a year about the texts I found on the phone bill being his ex gf [bad enough] – but when I finally emailed the ex gf discovered this was not so, and in actual fact it was one of my/our ex students. Horrendous. I kicked him out – which was the fuel he needed fr being the victim in this, and has used this to punish me for not trying to mend our marriage whilst he was staying at his friend’s, saying ‘I wasnt responsible for what you were feeling because I didnt live here’. Over the past 6 weeks he has dipped in and out of our family at will, at one time being quite happy to come and ask for sex but when I asked him to stay over afterwards, he said no and went back to his friend’s. I asked him to move back in and he said no and then ‘am I supposed to be grateful?’ which was so confusing because actually, yes you are after everything that’s happened! He started capping conversations and visits, by saying he would only be here for x amount of time, always cutting phone calls short, too busy to come and see his son and walk his dog let alone mend us. Always something more important to do. Not prepared to discuss with becoming defensive and face to face was absolutely impossible. I tried to disuss mending, all he said was he wanted space, that I was harassing him ‘relentlessly’ [not true] – and that his counsellor reckons he’s not PA at all but has very low self esteem. Suddenly it was all about poor him and I needed to back off and shut up! He moved back in [after I laid down an ultimatum of he either gets his backside home or that's it, divorce] but its cold, unemotional and when I mention that he gets angry and defensive again – I’m not allowed to say how I feel obviously. I feel like there’s too big a hill to climb to mend this – and that he doesn;t really give a damn. He says his emotions are all locked away – great – so where does that leave me and us trying to mend? At the end of the day, he broke this and yet now I’m scared to even say what I feel or think in case he gets confrontational – and then when he does, its my fault for putting ‘pressure’ on him. Our son is only 19months old – this wasnt the plan for his life – but I dont see how this will get better. When all tis blew up and he got found out, he just walked away and lived a selfsh life thinking just about him whilst I looked after the house and 3 kids etc on my own distraught. He showed no emotion, no remorse, no empathy, no demonstration of commitment, no love no respect even. From reading these pages, it would seem this is classic PA reaction? How come it all feels like its now MY fault??

    I think as time goes by, divorce is the only possibility. Either that or a life of keeping my mouth shut to keep the peace. Any advice?

    • shut down now- So sorry to hear you’re going through all this. It’s always sad to hear about someone who obviously loves someone else so much and gets no co-operation at all.

      I hate to have to say this, but it sounds like your husband wants his cake and to eat it too. If he has already had an “emotional affair” and then he wants his “space” I would say that a real affair probably isn’t too far behind. He says his emotions are “locked away” because they probably are and will remain so. Passive aggressives really don’t have the capacity to truly connect emotionally, which is why he is able to walk away and is too busy to see the kids, you, etc. As you can see, forcing him back into the house won’t give you want you want from him, but he can’t be allowed to run the family from afar at will either.

      It is important that you understand that these things are not your fault. Yes we feel like it is because that’s what they keep telling us to rationalize their behavior. It’s a load of crap and a cop out for not dealing with what is really going on in the marriage, or giving them an excuse to cheat, or whatever. I think if I were in your place I would start emotionally detaching from him so 1) he can’t hurt you so easily 2) if you have to move forward with a divorce in the future it won’t be as devastating. You need to start building your life with your kids, your family and your friends. Get some of your independence back, and if necessary it may not hurt for you to see a therapist also for moral support. Just remember to interview them first so you are sure to get someone who understands what you are going through.

      The next thing I would do if you are not already is be putting a little cash away that he doesn’t know about, just in case you need some emergency cash for you and the children. You can’t pull this out for any emergencies while you and he are together. This is strictly for a time that if the two of you should split, and you need a little extra money for a lawyer or you and the kids.

      You need to start taking control now before it’s completely out of your hands. If you were to find out he’s having a real affair today, where would you be? emotionally, financially? While you can hope for the best, and I sincerely wish you the best of luck, I would prepare for the worst. Anything that happens causing a break up is hurtful at best, but if you are totally unprepared, it can be really devastating.

      Let us know how you’re doing. Hope you find this to be of some help. We’re with you out here.

    • shut down now–I just wanted to comment on something in your post. Please, whatever you do, do NOT feel like all this is your fault. This is the manipulative way a PA gets to you, for whatever reason. My ex does/did the same thing to me and I was always constantly feeling guilty for everything that happened in our relationship. Then I read about PA and with the help of my mother, friends and this website realized it was not me. This is the PAs way of making themselvs feel better about the things they do. It makes them the victim, therefore, all blame is put on someone else.

      You care about your husband and this is something he knows and uses to his advantage, albeit to your disadvantage. So don’t even listen to him. Do as ladybeams says…get reconnect with family and friends. Make your own life with your kids. I was SO independent and my ex was gone so much that I had already started doing that. I realized it was going to end because I couldn’t take it anymore so I made sure I started returning friends’ phone calls more. Doing things with them, etc. It has helped tremendously.

      Also, ladybeams will find this interesting. While I was reading how he is emotionally disconnected, my light bulb went on. At my last meeting with the ex he told me “well when I meet someone new I’ll share my heart with them instead”. I thought to myself “did he never share it with me while I was sharing mine”. Oh how stupid I was to think that. He gave me the true PA answer and verified the fact that he is PA. As ladybeams said, they never really connect emotionally and are detached. They don’t realize they will NEVER connect or open their hearts up unless they try. Which may never happen.

      Anyway, read and read and read. This cite is helpful and you will learn so much. Once you learn to recognize it life is easier and you won’t be thinking that everything is your fault or feeling guilty. That’s what happened with me. I AM the victim but refuse to let it get to me while I have to listen to my ex whine about him being the victim. I feel sorry for him. (not really but I do pity him).

      Take care and hang in there…we women are resilient.
      Sami

      • Thankyou both. Since that last post things took a turn for the worst and yesterday I knew I couldnt take this any more. I went to the doctor yesterday for some mild anti depressants to help me cope and once again, no empathy whatsoever from my husband. When he got in from work there was an invisible but hideous tension between us and I said ‘do you feel as awkward as I do?’ he replied he did, and I asked what we are going to do about ‘dont know’ he said and I could just see this stress stretching out for all eternity and knew I couldnt take it any longer. So I made the call and told him it is over and I want a divorce. He just stared at me. I could see he was hurt and angry, but he just walked away, had a shower and went out saying he would move out the next day [today]. I knew, from the past separation not to expect him to fight for our marriage at all, and also knew that today he would start making demands for money and other nonsense. Sure enough the email came in this morning asking for £600 to be ready for him today. I told him no because the mortgage and bills will go out of the bank in 2 days time and he will have to wait. He softened a little then and I told him I had left a smaller amount for him in the house. He asked me to take the children out until 6pm so that he could move out but he hasnt taken much at all and will need to come back which is annoying. I sent him an email saying he could take anything he wanted as I wouldnt be trivial, and thanked him for allowing me to know what it was like to be alive in the early years of our relationship and for being my soul mate albeit not forever. His response? ‘May I take this moment to point out that it was you who asked for a divorce’. Turned it round again and he will continue to do so I know – all my fault he is so miserable now. I told him he can be very cruel and that he left me when he chose to have this text sex thing with an ex student behind my back and then lie to my face about it for nearly a year. HE made the choice, not me.

        But what is so horrible tonight is that once again I’m starting to doubt myself – have I done the right thing? Could I have tried harder? I know I wasnt very pleasant myself for a while….and suddenly all the things in the house that I have bought him are jumping out at me [note there are very few he has bought me... in fact only 1] and I fnd I am missing him – but missing WHAT exactly! The aggression and defensiveness? No! The constant digs at my eldest son? No! The lack of affection? No! The tension? No! So what? – The memory of when it was good. But his actions have smashed any hope of that returning. So very many lies and no compassion or empathy at all. Is lying common in PAs? He seems to be a compulsive liar – even about things that really dont matter. I know I will never again be able to trust him – not that I ever have to be honest.

        I’m just so very very sad. I didnt want a divorce. I wanted a happy marriage and now so desperately want a cuddle – but I also know that what I want cannot be achieved anymore and if i dont do this, I will consign myself and my kids to a life of misery and stress and tension. If we dont end this we will ultimately destroy each other or go insane. And I think I am half way there already.

        • I also feel I should clarify this emotional affair btw and see what you make of it. Last summer we were arguing dreadfully a LOT. Really viscious arguments and i could find no real reason for it other than being tired with a new-ish baby. He sent me away on an expensive spa weekend and I can home chilled, but within hours the tension was back and I just couldnt figure it out. So I started looking for answers and went through his mobile phone bill. I found a number cropping up over and over again – some 20+ texts each day for 2 mnths at ‘sneaky’ times when he was walking the dog or taking our son out for a walk – sometimes starting at 7.30am and ending at midnight. The day he said I could go our for the day, there were 29 texts that day. I called the number – no answer and no voicemail either. I went through his contacts and the number didnt exist. So I confonted him and asked him if he’d been having an affair and he said no. So I asked him if he’d been having some sort of text affair and he asked why, and I said I had seen the phone bill. He put his head in his hands and told me it was his ex girlfiend – someone he had built up to be an important ex – and that it had stopped. I asked him what ‘it’ was and he couldnt really say. He said she had tracked him down and wanted to talk because she had been raped. The story didnt stack up somehow and I kept returning to it over the next few months – but it still didnt make sense re why the amount of texts and why the sneaky times. Communication between us got worse and our marriage started to go downhill fast, despite a ‘fresh start’ at xmas. I really started to believe my husband was in still in love with his ex and so started lookig for more evidence to back tis up. I found an email he had sent her some years back asking her to run away wth him a she is perfect – which was very hurtful – especially as he had told me the reason they split was because he had walked in on her sleeping with someone else – it just didnt make sense how she could be so ‘perfect’. After a long time of this, I suggested we went into counselling but he was reluctant so i went on my own, and realised I had to decide whether I could move on from this or not – but my problem was not really understand what ‘this’ actually was. So I told him I would email the ex gf to get her side of the story – this was some 9 months after I found the phone bill and also abouy 8 months since I had found a pornogrpahic photo sent to his email which he had forwarded to his personal email, of a girl taking a picture of herself with a mobile in the mirror – obvously ‘homegrown’. I assumed it to be the ex, but he said it was just some pic a friend of his was circulating.

          So I emailed the ex, and was told she hadnt heard from him for over 4 years and to call her. So i did. And she told me my husband had already emailed her 1st thing that morning to beg her not to speak to me – she sent me the email thread – I read my husband’s pleas to her. It made me feel sick. So he knew he’d been found out and he came home with a well rehearsed story. And finally revealed it to be an ex student we had both taught, now just gone 20 [he is 37] and that it had ‘got out of hand’. The porno picture was of her and again i felt sick knowing that one of my students had sent a half naked picture of herself to my husband, her ex teacher, for his eyes only. And that is why I kicked him out in the first place. He still doesnt think he betrayed me that much and i’msure he thinks I’ve made a fuss over nothing because he [says] he didnt touch her. He met her once at the beginning and nothing happened.

          its the lies more than anything. The lack of conscience. And when he was out of the house, no fighting to save our marriage, no remorse. I feel totally disrespected, unloved and used. And still I asked him to come home and he threw it back in my face. Which is why I have now asked for a divorce. I know I cant trust him again and that I am worth so very much more.

          Whether this is an ‘emotional affair’ or not I’m not really sure. All I know is that he has totally betrayed our marriage vows and that in my eyes at least, he has been unfaithful to me. He may as well have slept with her for all the damage his actions have caused.

          • Shut down now- 29 texts in one day doesn’t sound like nothing to me. LOL. I don’t blame you for being very upset, not even looking at the full circumstances. And you are right, if everything was on the up and up, why would he have to text when he was sure you weren’t around? And it sounds like he had tried to get something going again with his ex before this came along (based on what you say about the email). How lucky you were that she wanted to go ahead and talk things out with you. At least you knew where things stood on that front. It sounds like even if you were to keep trying to save this marriage, he is looking and probably always will be looking for something else. I know this is easier said than done, but try not to take it personal. Sounds funny doesn’t it? I can almost hear you scream “but it is personal. It’s very personal”. What I’m saying is that it isn’t anything you did or didn’t do. It’s the way he is and will probably always be no matter who he’s with. You have already seen how “disconnected” he is when you told him to get out the first time. Passive aggressives really never invest a whole lot emotionally. That’s why it’s so hard for us, who give all the love in our hearts to give, have such a hard time understanding them.

            Hope this helps a little. Thanks for the further explanation regarding your situation. I would say you are definitely doing the right thing.

        • shut down now- I am so sorry it had to come to this. It is not unusual for all the bad stuff, for you to be sad about ending your marriage just as you would if a dear friend had died, which is essentially what is happening. If you don’t do something about it now, where will you be 5 yrs. from now except that 5 more years of misery will have gone by, and who knows, maybe even worse things to suffer through. And what about your oldest? What will 5 more years of this dysfunctional family unit do to him?

          It’s always easy for us to blame ourselves. It’s also easy to start remembering things as they were instead of how they are, but the truth is the truth. For every 1 person that can brag about not getting divorced, being married forever even though they lived most of it totally unhappy, I can show you 10, 20 or more that are happy they got out and can’t understand what took them so long.

          Now is the time to love the heck out of your children and get more involved with your family and friends. It will help a lot to fill some of the void you are and will feel over the coming months. At the same time, give yourself a little time, usually very little, and relish the sense of relief, the freedom, the peace in your house now that this is finally coming out in the open.

          My thoughts and prayers are with you, My Dear. Please, write as often as you need, whether it’s to cry or rant, or just feel like someone is listening. Good luck to you. How does your son feel about the split? Have you been able to sit and discuss his feelings along with your own about what is happening?

        • Please do not doubt yourself.Living with a PA eventually makes you feel doubtful,that is why we stay so long with them.Stay out of that relationship…that way you will keep your sanity.
          I let my PA husband after 23 years…it was tough but at least now I am free and don’t have to walk on eggshells any more.
          Freedom….Thank God I had the courage to walk.

          • mary mclaughlin- I just wanted to say Hi and thank you for your encouraging input. I think another reason we stay with our PAs so long is being afraid of the “unknown”, the future different than we had imagined it. It’s very encouraging to hear from those of you who have made it out and are much happier for the pain you had to go through to get there.

      • Sami- Thanks for your encouraging words. I’m sure they help all of us.

  9. can I also say that I agree with you that PA’s manipulate their therapist – when we went to couple counselling the other week, he was a different person – and the whole session turned on ME! His therapist says he exhibits no signs of PA behaviour at all – which has got him off the hook completely in his mind – she should try living with him!

  10. Hi Ladybeams–

    Things are going well with me and the children. Life is calm (to a point) except for the times the passive aggressive appears and rears his ugly head. I am here for a reason today and am hoping that maybe you can shed some light for me.

    As you know I did a lot of reading on this disorder and it is still a hard thing for me to deal with. I still have a difficult time understanding it but I cope and I try hard. My mistake over and over is that I want the ex to be somebody he is not. That somebody is just a decent human being that cares for his son and puts his son’s needs before his own and etc. I know this will never happen and I do my best to never get my hopes up.

    So here is the dilemma. I want to go overseas to teach and take my children. Of course, I have to have a passport for the younger one. That would require his cooperation in getting the passport. So after our regular divorce with the U.S. courts there is a formality with the Islamic community. I have had to obtain an Islamic divorce. No biggie, just something I chose to do to be right with God. Anyway, he went and visited the Imam (pastor) and said he would sign the divorce papers and would also let me take my son overseas if I go. I found this out after the fact, meaning I called the Imam today to confirm my ex had shown up and to find out what had transpired. The Imam said they talked for 2 hours and he agreed to let the little one go.

    I have learned that whatever comes out of my ex’s mouth is hardly ever the truth. Last night I called and talked to him. He stated he stood around for the Imam and never signed the papers because the Imam was so busy with so many other people. Well I had driven by the place to make sure he went. He did and his car and the Imam’s car were the ONLY cars in the lot. I then brought up the subject of letting me take the little one with me overseas and he totally denied it. Completely said no he won’t let him go and if I want to go I will need to sign custody over to him. He also said the Imam never talked to him about the issue with our son going overseas.

    My issue is this…why did he contradict the Imam like that? Was he trying to get me to agree to signing custody over? Was he just trying to drive me crazy and make me go totally nuts? I had to tell him several times that he didn’t have to yell and I stayed calm the whole time (yes something I learned your supposed to do with them). In the end I was not and never got flustered. Did not fight with him and when he would cut me off…I let him do so and did not remind him that he was interrupting. Wow…I SOOOOOOOO handled that properly. Anyway…can you shed some light on his “tactic” because I am so genuinely confused?????

    • Sami- That is terrific that the Imam was able to get some co-operation out of your ex. Personally, I probably would have let it go at that, gotten the papers together for him to sign, etc. I don’t think I would have called him to discuss it. Once you get a yes, go with it. Don’t give him a chance to weasel out of anything, which you know he will if there is an opportunity.

      I would say that he is “fishing”. He said all that to you to feel you out, to find out how strong you are, to scare you a little. I am so proud of you for remaining calm and standing your ground. That is why he kept getting more upset, because until you lose it, he knows he’s not in control. Go Girl! LOL. I think I would have the papers you want him to sign drawn up and set up an appointment at the Imam’s office for him to sign them. Of course, as I’m sure you know, have an extra copy for your ex to take with him. I think to save face, he should show up and sign like he said he would.

      Good luck My Dear. It sounds like you and your children have a wonderful experience ahead of you.

  11. I too think the idea of having the papers delivered to the Imam is BRILLIANT! You are learning – effectively- how to do the ‘disconnected dance’ with your PA. It is HEALTHY for you- CONGRATS!

    Do NOT warn him that is what you are doing-I’d do things in this order;
    1- deliver a set of ready to be signed papers to the Imam.
    2- ask the IMAM to call him (he’ll answer the phone, he’ll put on his ‘best boy’ behavior, he’ll be held accountable by a third party) and set up the appt to have them signed.
    3- have the Imam keep the signed copy for you to retrieve at a later time.

    GOOD LUCK!!!

  12. Well, all went somewhat okay at the divorce. He did show up and he did sign but funny thing, and I was SO laughing inside (a little shocked) like “ahaa I knew it!”…he faltered when he was telling me he was divorcing me and I could see it in his face. OMG! What a fool. This man had too much pride in the last 11 months to admit he cheated, was wrong and loves me enough to want me. I don’t feel sorry for him. I too, in my life, have made mistakes. Only difference is if I’m wrong I’m “man” enough to admit it and move on. He can’t even do that. I knew that whole bottle of cologne, nice clothes and flaunting of material items had a purpose. Thing is…I make more, have more and don’t really care what little he has.

    One thing that made me angry at the divorce situation was the discussion of me moving overseas and taking the little one. He does not want that (of course) because that would benefit me and his own son. But every time I would talk, he would interrupt me with very loud talking and I couldn’t ever finish. I kept saying calmly “let me finish and you keep interrupting and would you please listen”. Finally the Imam turned to me crossed his arms and said “please say what you have to say” because he heard what I was saying and realized I was being mowed over. Wow…I have come a long way baby. (hahaha) He also spent a majority of the meeting texting on his phone!!! God…what a child. I left my phone in my purse and even left the children at home. I was there on adult business…he showed up for playtime. (as I smack my hand to my forehead)

    The only thing left is I am barred from moving anywhere. I will have to petition the court to move to CA because my mom wants me to move back home. I think it would be good for all of us since I have been gone for 16 years. I am in school to become a teacher and there are some opportunities there. I think I will have to give time for the ex to disappear. People keep saying that is what he is going to do. As bad as it sounds…I hope for that. He moved (only to a different apt-same complex) but has not told the court, atty general or me officially. Court order requires both of us to inform the other. He has made one child support payment (but still behind and another coming up) and claims to want to see the child, knew on Nov. 1 the divorce was final and has seen the boy for 40 minutes since Nov. 1 and I had to remind him of that. What do you think? I know they can go either way, but knowing all this your conjecture would be interesting to know.

    I am so grateful for your site. It gives me a place to go to help with all this and for people who totally understand what I went/go through with this PA.

  13. Just FYI–today was his day again to show and nothing. So this weekend is his weekend AND it’s the holiday so he could take him technically until Dec. 28th. But since the no show last night. He won’t be coming and I know this. Thank goodness I learned with the older one NEVER tell your child your ex is going to show. When they do great and that way when they don’t…you don’t let the child down.

    Here is another reason why he won’t pick him up. I’ve know this man for 7 years. All those years he worked nights and slept days. Nothing changed when I was with him. My son would put a cramp in his schedule. You can’t take care of a rambunctious 4 yr old and sleep during the day and up all night. This is how I know he won’t get him for extended periods of time.

    So with all this said and done. I am convinced he will disappear. But I’d still like to hear your thoughts LadyBeams. Thanks.

    • Hey Sami- Congratulations on getting as far as you did! It doesn’t seem that long ago when you were one of the ones trying to decide what to do about everything. LOL. Good for you, My Friend.

      I find it incredible that he has moved into an apartment in the same complex and still doesn’t manage to show up for the little one. LOL. I truly don’t think you’re going to have much to worry about much longer. Like we said, just make sure you document each time he’s supposed to see your son and when he doesn’t show. You should be able to keep any text messages you send him or get from him on your phone, so try to save those. They are excellent proof.

      Didn’t you say you are still going to school? If so, then you have some things you need to finish here anyway, so you have a little time. Now that he’s responsible for his own rent etc. it may not take him as long to disappear as you think. LOL. I do want to warn you though. Even if he doesn’t come to see your son like he should, or acts like he could care less, he may try to continually stop you from taking your son anywhere out of spite. Of course it is easier if he disappears because you just have to send papers for court to the last known address, unless he’s retaining his lawyer even after the divorce. He may always let her know where he is just in case you do decide to take him back to court.

      Personally, I think from what you’ve told me about him, that he’ll tire of this rather quickly and start moving on. Heck, he was seeing other women when he was with you, he has free reign now. Once he has something (someone) else to distract him, I’m sure he won’t even want to be bothered anymore. Between documenting everything, and if you really want him to disappear, taking him back to court over not paying the child support, he’ll probably be gone in a hurry.

      We’re all rooting for you Sami. You got this far, the rest is gravy, so to speak. In the meantime, just save up for the trip, get your stuff all wrapped up that needs to get done, and when you’re free to go, you’ll be all set for an easy transition.

      • Your answer is as I figured. Even I can see this. He only does this stuff to get back at me. Not because he cares for his son. That is quite obvious. And I didn’t think about the fact that he will have that apartment to provide for and I am sure if he can find a distraction…we are history.

        I am pretty much going to sit back and let it all unfold before my eyes. My mom keeps telling me that he will cause enough trouble for himself and I won’t have to do a thing. She’s right and I know this. I have to admit that I still fear being with him because dealing with him you have to “walk on eggshells” so to speak. My fear is not really fear of him…just fear of what he will pull in order to get what he wants and then control me. I hate that and I want to be released from this. Hence the MAIN reason I do not have contact with him. I will not hinder his access to our son. But that does not mean that I have to do all the contacting. At least the court will say he is responsible for that.

        I am in school but it is online 100%. That is why I can afford to move here and there. Texas also has a 6 month abandonment law. I’ve been looking at that and will not do anything until summer. One thing I am good at…is being patient enough to do what I need to in order to get myself out of a situation. I have been here a few times before. Remember I knew for a week he was cheating and said nothing before kicking him out and taking our tax money??? I once had a co-worker tell me “you have to be careful of the quiet ones”. She was right.

        I just document and document. I had a girl at my son’s daycare say it took her four years of documenting but that dad finally signed his rights over. I will see what happens with child support. There are many things he is not doing that can get him deported and I am not sure he is aware of this. I will make sure the AG knows his address. He doesn’t pay support, hasn’t told US where he lives, hasn’t paid taxes on his under the table job and is not married to me to prove he is still married to his sponsor. So not really sure what will happen to him. He is playing with a governmental fire and we citizens know that you don’t want to be on the government’s radar.

        I am hoping it is gravy. I’ve managed to get a lot out of him. I realize that. I was surprised how easy the Islamic divorce went…I am wondering if he has a sweetie on the side. Hmmm. Oh I have so gotten over trying to figure him out. He makes my head hurt. But in the end he doesn’t realize (and the Imam warned him) that if he doesn’t have a relationship with his son…it will bite him in the butt. He has no idea and you know what? He was warned.

        Thanks for the continued support and your right I have come a long way since this all started. I remember I just wanted my kids and the house and was worried about that. It turned to something else and something else. I will continue to work on my dreams…I’ve never been thwarted before and I’m loaded with ambition. Take care.

        • Yay Sami- I’m in your cheering section. You are a smart lady and have patience. Something I never had when I was younger. If you give him enough rope, he’ll hang himself, as they say.

          Love to hear how you’re doing. It’s like a “Sami chart” where I just keep seeing the value go up and up! Love it!

  14. Having been seperated from my PA husband for 8 months now the main thing I’ve found is that he’s in the “victim” / “poor me” mode most of the time. Also in the beggining he kept telling me he’d change and he’d learnt his lesson and saying things like “haven’t I been punished enough” lol that phrase makes me laugh cos it’s so PA…basically playing the victim with that and of course making me the nasty villan who was “punishing” him.

    The other things that I’ve found is that he did exactly what I thought he’s do after we split up and went in search of another woman. So far within 8 months he’s on his 4th lol.

    The great thing is that I’m not in a fog/haze of confused emotions any more and can clearly see exactly what he’s doing ( most of the time…he does get the better of me occassionally as I have dropped my guard a few times) so it’s much much easier to deal with now.

    On a personal level the hardest thing for me has been learning to accept what I went through for what it was which was a form of emotional abuse and also understand why I didn’t recognise it sooner. Funnily enough I can accept him for what he is and forgive him ( would never ever have him back though) but I am still coming to terms with my part/role in this. That bit has been harder for me than leaving him. However as hard as it can be sometimes it’s this blog and reading others comments on here that are helping me to come to terms with how I ended up in a relationship that was so unhealthy, emotionally damaging and clearly unfullfilling for me for at least 8 of the 12 yrs we were together.

    One things for certain… getting him out of my life has been the best thing I’ve ever done and there’s no going back now.

  15. I have done it! I have moved my husband out! I am a single parent with two boys, 7 and 4 1/2. After reading books on PA, single parenting, after trying to make my marriage work, after crying for years, and sucking back another block of life on anti-depressants, I put my big girls pants on and muscled up….I have no regrets. I feel sane again, happy, I’m singing again, i’m making new friends, I am no longer a victim…whew/….what a ride. Thanks to this website for all the information…it has saved me from drowning…I nearly did…. luckily for me swimming is more my style…thanks ladybeams. MWHA

  16. One year ago I met a boy and I fell in love with him. He fell in love with me too. And from the very first day we met we are togheter. But it was a problem. His ex-girlfriend is the most passive aggressive person I ever heard (because I didn’t meet her). She is harassing us all the time and makes me feel like I am the worst person because I took the love of him away.
    I must say that my boyfriend was very unhappy in his previous relationship and he could not love her anymore, because he was abused. He told me that she was complaining about everything in her life and she was always the victim, like she is now, and I feel sorry for her and I feel so bad because I am the new “disaster” in her life. I feel like I never felt before, I have lower self esteem and I am thinking I am a bad person. I talked to my boyfriend and I was ready to breack up with him if he wants to make up with his ex, but he dosen’t want to hear about this. He loves me. And above all, we are the negative characters from the story, and I really feel bad, because all my life I wanted to help people.
    She made me think that my boyfriend is a bad person who cannot love and respect a woman, and I was scared of him, because I thought if he didn’t respect her, he would not respect me either, and yes …. I thought it was his fault that he didn’t understand her and he made her suffer.
    There are many more to say but I will limit of these.
    I love life and I love people but now I am confused and I am scared of people, because if one human being could be like this, maybe there are many more out there. I was thinking that something was not normal, but all the time I thought it was my fault. Now when I am reading all the stories I am more calm. And gues what : I am happy. Please respond to me and to my case. Thank you!!!! And thank you for all you doing!

    • HI Rhania,

      I have been married a long time and learned a while back that my PA husband has had an affair. He thinks it is more real than our marriage, because “it feels good”.

      The woman has done so much against him but he doesn’t see that she cares for him to fill a void and not who he is. He tried to return and she contacted me to introduce herself! Other things, too, but he sees me as the blame for bad things in his life and her the good. He told me right out “She is fat!”, flaw searching, and searches our house for housekeeping errors -he even goes behind the furniture!

      I have heard this is validation for what he did.

      Anyway…I don’t think he is intentionally a bad person, but anger at the world and job loss and other things let down his guard…I know what he did to me and know it sounds like excuses.

      I feel like you about helping people and want very much to help him not lose out on twenty years, for a woman who knew about me and did it anyway!

      Ladybeams and others, I struggle with the notion that people get physical knowing people are married. What kind of person is this and is there a way to show a person that this trait is negative and could hurt them in the long run, no matter how things turn out?

  17. Three months have passed since our split. My PA husband left without a fight, never once tried to get me back, to talk or anything, it has been a kick in the guts, 10 years of marriage, two children, three years of no sex, no communication or intimacy of any kind and not a word. Interestingly enough he has started dating a friend (not anymore) of mine, and there are flowers, I love yous, she is going all over town saying he is the love of her life, and that has devastated me. How could he make me wait for so long and then appear to be giving it to someone else….He has broken my heart….once again. I was so relieved when he left, I did not expect to care. But it turns out I do and have more healing to go. Its not fair, but with love and friends and my boys and most of all God, I will heal. Better things are in store – they must be!

  18. Why do we care!

    • @ Amanda, Maybe because we love truly and they may not?

      What I try to remember when I am in better spirits, is that I would think, over time, the “next one” won’t last either.

      Amanda, did you have a lot of fighting, but couldn’t make sense of it or “fix” it the way he wanted? My husband did this when he wanted to leave and I found mysef at counseling defending myself to tears.

      The “other person” is all over facebook with MY husband on her page-MY house is there and MY child!

      In laws that he speaks to are snubbing me, including my daughter’s godmother, who was a lunch and shopping friend for many years. It makes me gag to think of what version they have.

      I notice the dates on here are aging letters, but this information has also helped me. It gives me a place to work on things when I can’t with him or a counselor.

      I think a really hard part is trying to realize there is really nothing I can do. I can’t help think its my fault but I did every darn thing on the “list”, including “dirty sex”, but it was not enough.

      I too have more healing and detatching to do. I know what he has done but think I cling to the past?

  19. Thank you for this site, I have read every word. I’m not ready at this point to share ‘my story’, but am grateful to have found a place I’m sure to feel comfortable when I’m ready to. Prayers for every woman or man struggling with the confusion and sadness that comes with loving someone who can’t love us back.

    • Katie, I will pray for you. I have also lit a candle for you! …..One day you will wake up and get out.
      Best wishes and good luck.

  20. Hi Amanda,

    That sounds really horrid, and I imagine how much you must be hurting right now. I certainly don’t want to make light of your situation, but there are also breakups where the aggressive side of the passive-aggressive comes out big time: mine was one of those and it was horrendous. He transferred his dependency from me to a lawyer (who took him to the cleaners, by the way, taking a big chunk of the settlement I had to give him to get him to leave), and the combination of the two men made my life a living hell for more than a year. I’m still trying to come to terms with a process that could have happened so differently. On the other hand, I had to say to myself, if his behavior made the marriage untenable, why should I have expected the divorce to be any less difficult?

    As for your ex’s new romance, I think he is simply doing the same thing my ex did: transferring his neediness onto someone else. He won’t have taken the time to make sense of the relationship breakdown, to learn from it, grow, and move on positively with his life, and this new person is simply a stand-in on which he can enact all of his same behaviors (not in the beginning of course, but they will come!). All of the same issues that he had with you (which were not about you, but due to unresolved issues in his past) will be played out with her, and she’ll suffer in the same way.

    So I know that it must hurt like anything just now, and it’s not easy being on your own. When I’m feeling really low or lonely I go back and read some of the diaries I kept when we were together: all of the emotional distance, the nastiness and mind games come flooding back, and I tell myself that anything has to be better than that!

    Hugs to you – it will get better, and we are here for you!

    • Dear Jane,

      You are absolutely right!
      He is simply using the new woman in his life to feel good about himself. The new woman in his life thinks that it’s all about her, but the thing about PA men is that, it is alway ONLY about them. Soon enough, the inner resentment in him will come bubbling to the surface and this new woman will become his new punching bag.

      Amanda,
      Don’t envy her! He did you a FAVOUR by leaving you. Though it may not feel that way now, you will see that it is true one year from now.

      Take care!

      June

  21. Hi Jane…thanks so much for your reply. It means so much to know I have support and love coming from afar! And you are right..my head knows it and my heart will follow!
    Thanks.
    Amanda

  22. Does anyone think a really angry, aggressive P.A. man whose family has left him could hurt the children?

    My P.A. husband is coming for Easter and taking the kids to a cabin in the woods for a week. He is at maximum dysfunction now – HATES me, and I am evil because I took the children away from him and he has to send me lots of money to pay for them. I wonder how desperate he could get…?

    Thanks for any thoughts.

    • Jenny- Hi and Welcome to our group.

      I hope someone else reads this and weighs in on it also. After reading your comment under “A Way To Cope With A Passive Aggressive Spouse” and then this, I have to say I would be a little worried. Aside from you, how does he treat his kids? Does he treat them with love, or with resentment because he’s paying child support? What does your gut tell you? Do you honestly feel like they could be in danger? Is his “other woman” going? Even though you may not prefer that, odds would be better if she was that the children would be safe.

      Do you have any backup for what you say about how nasty your ex is with you? Do you log or tape phone calls, or has he left nasty messages on your phone? If you should have to get a restraining order, you may need to show cause. With my ex, he would kill me in a flat minute, but he was ok with the kids.

      Good luck. You don’t have much time if you want to change his plans. This also won’t ‘endear’ you to him, but you have to do what you think is right.

  23. My partner of 12 years walked out after a fight (where I ended up arrested) nearly 3 week ago. I only learned after he left that he’s PA and that’s why I get so angry with him.
    I haven’t heard a word from him since.
    He won’t take his name of the tenancy we share and won’t come get his stuff.
    I’m in limbo as I won’t leave the house in case he comes back and take my stuff too.
    I think I still love him and it hurts that he can throw 12 years away.
    I moved across the county (uk) to be with him and he brought my kids up (he’s blocked them on twitter etc..too)
    We fought cos I caught him texting and ringing a woman he claimed “was just a friend”.
    Two of his favourite saying over the years was “I can’t win with you” and “I can never do right with you”.
    Do you think he ever loved me?
    Is there a chance he will ever talk to me about this?
    I wouldn’t take him back but I need to know the answers to some things.
    Marg

    • Marg- Hi and Welcome to the group. So sorry to hear you’ve ended the way so many have that have been involved
      with a passive aggressive. If you haven’t seen or heard from him in 3 weeks, you may not for a while longer. If he is involved with someone else, you may not hear from him until that relationship has either moved forward or fallen apart. The odds are he will never “truthfully” talk to you about any of this. He may put some kind of spin on it all to make it all your fault, then you won’t be able to keep him quiet. If you know how to get a hold of him, you could let him know you are putting all his stuff out on the front lawn as of a certain day. Then he can either come get it or not, it’s up to him. I also would change all the locks. You shouldn’t have to be a prisoner in your own home wondering when he will return.

      Anything that is really special to you, any keepsakes, rings, etc. you should box up and put away. That way if he should start taking stuff, the things that are really important to you you will have. PAs can be very vengeful, even if they are the ones doing the breaking up.

      Log everything. Put down the date and time you get in touch with him, or try to, what you discussed, etc. This will help you if you end up in court. If you give him notice about his things, or changing the locks, etc. this will help things go in your favor. Start with the date and time he left the house 3 weeks ago.

      If you have to appear in court due to your arrest, you may see him there if he has to press charges. I’m not sure how it works in your country. If he doesn’t show up, the whole thing may get dismissed, but you should be prepared for seeing him, just in case. If things have gotten that volatile between you two, you may be able to get a restraining order so that he can only come get his stuff with a Sheriff, or Peace Officer.

      Good luck, and feel free to check in any time and let us know how you’re making out. If he’s keeping you dangling out there, then it’s just up to you to take action.

      • Listen to this, my son said it made him think of me and what I’m going through right now.

        Lyrics-
        “Somebody That I Used To Know”
        (feat. Kimbra)

        [Gotye:]
        Now and then I think of when we were together
        Like when you said you felt so happy you could die
        Told myself that you were right for me
        But felt so lonely in your company
        But that was love and it’s an ache I still remember

        You can get addicted to a certain kind of sadness
        Like resignation to the end, always the end
        So when we found that we could not make sense
        Well you said that we would still be friends
        But I’ll admit that I was glad it was over

        But you didn’t have to cut me off
        Make out like it never happened and that we were nothing
        And I don’t even need your love
        But you treat me like a stranger and I feel so rough
        No you didn’t have to stoop so low
        Have your friends collect your records and then change your number
        I guess that I don’t need that though
        Now you’re just somebody that I used to know

        Now you’re just somebody that I used to know
        Now you’re just somebody that I used to know

        [Kimbra:]
        Now and then I think of all the times you screwed me over
        Part of me believing it was always something that I’d done
        But I don’t wanna live that way
        Reading into every word you say
        You said that you could let it go
        And I wouldn’t catch you hung up on somebody that you used to know

        [Gotye:]
        But you didn’t have to cut me off
        Make out like it never happened and that we were nothing
        And I don’t even need your love
        But you treat me like a stranger and I feel so rough
        And you didn’t have to stoop so low
        Have your friends collect your records and then change your number
        I guess that I don’t need that though
        Now you’re just somebody that I used to know

        [x2]
        Somebody
        (I used to know)
        Somebody
        (Now you’re just somebody that I used to know)

        (I used to know)
        (That I used to know)
        (I used to know)
        Somebody

        • Marg- Thanks so much for posting this. In fact I thought it was so good, I would like more people to see it. I hope you don’t mind me “reposting” this on the front. The words are perfect.

          • Of course I don’t mind, yes the words are perfect, every single one! I (and others) could have wrote this ourselves xx

    • Hi, Just an update :)
      My PA left just over a year ago and I want you all to know that it was THE BEST thing ever to happen!!!! I lost 5 Stone in weight, came off AD’s, my eczema cleared up and I have met a wonderful, thoughtful, romantic man. I am happy, confident, content and secure.
      So for those of you who are dealing with new and raw feelings and emotions, hang in there, it DOES get better!!!
      (((((hugs)))))) xxxx

  24. I recently stumbled on this site.I ve been married to a P.A for 10yrs now.I ve been thinking of a way of escape but am jobless,he made me dependent on him all these yrs,I finally made up my mind to stand up to him and I found a little paid job.I fear that if I leave,I will not be able to support the kids on my own.and what to tell the kids are my biggest concerns.I ve 3kids,the oldest is9yrs,7yrs and 2yrs.knowing that he wil definitely fight for their custody.how do I even start to live without them?am so confused

    • Dear Billy Yusuf,

      It’s strange that you are dependent on your PA because most of them are useless bums who are dependent on their spouses to be the responsible ones in the relationship.

      What PA traits does he display?

      Regards,

      June

  25. This blog has been the best thing that’s happened to me. It was what made me realize my boyfriend is a PA. I have to admit, it was like a weight being lifted off my shoulders…to finally have an answer as to why he is the way he is. I was in awe when I found out that I’m not alone! It’s awesome to see that I can get through this.. but I’m just curious… Do you guys think they truly care about us and just don’t ever show it, or do you think their PA just doesn’t allow them to get close to anyone?

    • Ashley – I do think they care, but can’t get close because of the PA. Mine is always pushing me away, that way in his mind he isn’t close and he did the hurting first.
      Strange, but it is how they are. I have read that the only life with a PA is to do what you want and build your life without them. Only question I have is why stay if you build it on your own?

      • Dear Red,

        You are right: why stay with a PA man if you have yo build a life for yourself on your own?

        This was my marriage for 12 years. He never cared about my feelings, simply doing whatever pleased him. So I pulled myself together and slowly began to rebuild my life without him. And when I was finally ready, I left him.

        No regrets. Never looking back.

        June

    • Dear Ashley,

      PA men are selfish. If you choose to stay with one, he will only use you as a punching bag for his inner resentment. I was married to one for 12 years. They will never change because they blame their failures and shortcomings on others. They never take responsibility for anything. Also, they are unfaithful and will indulge in affairs behind your back as a stupid way of covertly punishing you for things that they feel you have done to them (such as: expecting a grown man to be responsible). On more than 1 occasion, my ex was late for work simply because I didn’t wake him up in the morning, even though I told him the night before that I would be sleeping in as I didn’t need to be at work the next day.

      Being in a relationship with a PA man is like being with a teenager: he is resentful when you tell him to be more responsible but he won’t lift a finger to show some initiative either.

      My opinion: stay as faraway from PA men as possible. There are more emotionally well adjusted men out there who will love us and appreciate us for who we are. These blood sucking PA parasites should just be left to rot in the gutter.

      Best,

      June

  26. Well I have read this site several times. I have been separated for 19 months now. It was my PA’s idea. We are still living in the same house but separately. I do not recommend this to anyone. I have been married 30 years. I filed for divorce this past Jan. Since filing, he has been doing all the things I have wished for over the years, he even said he stopped drinking. All the things that would have mattered back then don’t now. He still zings me and tries to push my buttons. And at every turn, he is still trying to stop the divorce. (even though he asked for one at the holidays every yr since ’99) It has been exhausting. I look forward to being on the other side one day soon. Thank you for this site. It gives me confidence to move on and knowing I am not the only one.

    • Keep going….you will not regret it.Get out and stay out!

      • Thanks Mary! I have not looked back only forward. Moving forward and happy to do so. He just fights every step of the divorce…..which at times is so draining.

  27. My PA ex has exhibited all three, PA break-up behaviors during our break ups/separations…

    #1 Examples: We separated in 2010, he immediately began using dating sites in an attempt to move on. We separated again this August 2012 (he’d been cheating on me since April of this year in addition to the emotional neglect, lack of intimacy, withdrawal etc. exhibited over the last three years. He was on dating sites, once I caught him and asked him to leave, he created new profiles.

    #2 Examples: During break-up 2010, he ran my name through the mud, demonizing me to coworkers, friends, family and other women – saying I cheated etc. when I never did. He also refused to give me any financial support for necessities for myself or our son all the while splurging on and spoiling himself to rub it in my face.

    #3 Examples: Break-up 2010: When we began to talk about reconciling, he saw his behavior for what it was (giving me hope), and cried/seemed remorseful and then put the blame back on me for saying mean things during arguments (criticizing him) and accused me of cheating (I never had) so used his suspicions as an excuse for his withdrawal, lack of affection, no intimacy, not following through, obstruction etc. etc.. Ended up spinning reconciliation into my need to change (he never improved his behavior in the last two years), I went to counseling to “fix me”.

    Break-up 2012: Cried huge crocodile tears over his cheating. Seemed remorseful then got mad at me for wanting more honesty (proof he stopped cheating) if we were going to try to make us work and decided not to go to counseling and not to fix things between us. Blamed his cheating on my criticism and demands (for foreplay, affection, to spend time and go on dates etc. for him to finish the house repairs he started 3 years ago) he said he didn’t feel liked so he cheated…

    I kicked his ass to the curb. I am sick of this sh!t but a lot of damage has been done to me on a mental and emotional level. I feel like the shell of a woman I used to be and am now starting to recognize that I’ve been emotionally manipulated and abused for years (9 together, 1 child and 1 on the way).

  28. Hi everyone!
    I am so glad I found you guys here! Perhaps it is unfortunate that we seem to belong to the same “club”. However, it is so wonderful that we are able to share and offer one another support as we get over our traumatic relationships with these toxic PA men.

    I was married for 12 years to a PA man who abused me physically and emotionally. I was too blind to see him for who he really was. For years I had suspected him of infidelities. But each time I tried to have honest heart to heart talks with him, he’d evade discussion by either turning it into a joke or getting angry.

    Well, I finally had enough of his crap. I kicked him out of my home a month ago and I am never taking him back. Initially, I was so angry with him for continually denying his affair (which is still taking place now). I was also angry with him for putting up a remorseful and contrite appearance in front of my dad and his sister. He claims that he wants to reconcile and that he feels bad about what he’s done but fears that I am too angry to forgive him. In reality, he has NEVER apologized for his affair or abuse of me and when he came back to get the rest of his things 3 days after I told him to get out, he was violent, angry and vulgar – kicking things about and calling me a bloody b*tch.

    He’s a real slimey piece of work, isn’t he?

    I am so glad my 12 yr nightmare is finally over!

    June.

  29. My Goodness, i can not believe i found this blog. I am trying to get a divorce from my PA husband. Just figured out what his problem was after a friend showed me a website,it is him to a tee..the continuous stream of lies upon lies,the hatred,the constant revenge,the lack of help, the pathetic weak resistance to anything i wanted or needed, the blatant withholding of emotions,sex, stimulation, love, friendship, working out anything in our relationship, basically ANYTHING i wanted at all! Plus, the blaming yet no communicating of feelings or no telling me what i did wrong-only after he had cheated (then said he did it because i looked at a guy)Emotional affairs, constant choosing other women over me, constant making me look bad in front of others, the jealousy, the envy of me, the cutting and demeaning comments about my character and my look.The lazyness and keeping the house like a pigsty, the lack of support of me, the never ever standing up for me..i can go on, Dear God,how did i end up with this monster???
    That is what i’m working on now. I ended up kicking him out clean..the best thing i ever did. I felt so free and so right and so happy. Then he kept on stalking me and i finally caved and went into ‘maybe i made a mistake’ mode. Second guessing myself because he prayed on my morals.yes, i could have worked on it more, yes, i did still love him, yes, i feel bad i hurt someone by just kicking them out, yes i am very sad my marriage ended.
    I tried to get him to work on it one last time and he took that opportunity to take me down to hell and back…he did it all again, just worse..the cheating, emotional affairs, emotional blackmail, insults,emotional manipulation,revenge, jealousy and total head-f**k.
    I nearly killed myself. But woke up to myself just in time to realise that actually, these thoughts are not mine, i am a happy, beautiful, wonderful person with a heart full of love and so much to offer the world. He nearly got me,thank you to my friends and family who kept me sane. I still am crying as my head is just so screwed and my heart hurts so much that someone could deliberately manipulate someone and harm someone with so much intent and in the most callous and cowardly way.So much work and trying and trying and tears and anger..white hot anger when something isn’t right and you can’t even trust your own thoughts and feelings because they manipulate you so so much.
    I am still recovering and will try anything to be happy and smiling again because if i don’t-he has won. That will not happen. No way. My demise is his hobby and his aim.
    He is now living with the latest girl who he had an affair with just 2 moths after we split again after telling me she is just a friend and nothing will ever happen between them. I hate her too for getting in between us knowing we were together. But i also am Thankful because i know he will do it to her too and that will be her Karma. Whist he is with her he is away from me. So glad.
    Im just wondering how long i will be crying for? How long i won’t be able to trust.How long i will be going over and over and over the things he did to me in my mind?I feel like i lost control of my mind and still have a low self esteem.
    But i am much improved from 5 months ago and am facing my own demons as to how i attracted that man. I am grateful for that. I am grateful just to be given a second chance and an opportunity to heal and love again.

    • Hi Mia, I read your story and my heart is filled with compassion for you. I am reading my own story by reading yours! Honey I have been separated from my husband for one year now, the tears dried up at about 8 months for me, I am single and raising our two sons alone. I am getting to know myself now and it is precious time. I like me, I feel sexy, pretty, funny, i am a good mum, and I am slowly socializing a bit more. I know that each month it gets better. My husband still does all the same things, withholds conversation, information, he is always late picking up and dropping off the boys and there is no trust between us. He is with one of my friends, and it hurt like hell, but I am better off without him and you are better off without him.
      Stay strong, talk to your friends, go to church and get to know your beautiful self again.

      Good luck
      Amanda

      • I have the same situation, Amanda. My PA also left and besides that he left everything for me to deal with. I paid all of the mortgage by myself because he refused to pay for it (for which I took him to court), he left me to find new owners for our family dog and cat because I couldn`t take them into apartment, he left me to deal with the sale of the house and moving, etc. On top of that, i had to explain my 2 kids why we don`t live togetehr and why we are getting divorced, I had to explain to relatives and family friends what happened, etc.
        All he did was upon me asking him to change (go to counselling, talk things through, etc) and threatening with divorce if situation persists, he found someone else and then moved out by saying he wants some time off and freedom (dumping me before I dump him). He met that woman in the nightclub 2 months before he moved out and 4 months after he moved out he impregnated her and then called me (while we were separated) and stated that he doesn`t want a child with her. On top of that, he asked 3x to come back home (before impregnating her) but I couldn`t take him because he was a coward and didn`t do the steps necessary for healing and making our marriage work. He just expected that since I love him so much and we have been together 12 yrs and we have 2 kids, that I will take him back with open arms but he was wrong. Once I found out about the affair, I filed for divorce and took him to court for everything what I and kids are entitled to.
        It`s been almost 11 months as we have been separated and divorce is almost final.

        I`m starting to learn again who I really am and love myself and rebuild my self -esteem but the damage that he did is huge :(

  30. So are you saying a PA will never really change, for the long run?

    • Not that I am aware of. Never seen it, but maybe someone else has seen it. The book says they can with a lot of work….

    • PA must want the change and realize they are doing what they do. This is their way of life. Very few change and so may change, but revert back to their old ways.

  31. Hi Ladies

    These men need to be rounded up and dumped on a desert island. Thank god for this site. I had no idea what passive aggressive even meant or worse, that I was married to one until someone pointed me in the right direction.

    My husband had been acting distant for a while so I finally forced him to tell me what was going on. I say “forced” because he was never one to talk about ANYTHING. He dropped the bomb. He wanted a divorce and was no longer in love with me. I spent the next month walking around in a daze and of course blaming myself. Did I nag too much? What could I have done differently? How could I have lost this wonderful man who was so perfect? It wasn’t until I went and talked to a Psychologist that things finally made sense. She simply said to me ” I want you to go home and do some research on passive aggresive people”. As soon as I did, a huge weight had been lifted. I was angry at him but mostly at myself for allowing him to manipulate me all these years.

    I found out shortly after I asked him to move out, that he was in love with someone else. This woman started working with him 2 weeks before he asked me for a divorce. Coincidence? I think not :) This woman is the love of his life, his soulmate. He of course insists that nothing was going on before we split up.

    Here’s my problem and I’m hoping that you ladies can help. Our house has been up for sale for almost 2 months. Each time someone was supposed to come and see it, he’d text me and tell me that they didn’t show (after years of being responsible for EVRYTHING I had tasked him with the sale of the house). I’m very suspicious of the new mind games he’s now playing. He’s made no attempt at saving our relationship, which I am fine with, but I still can’t help but wonder if something else is going on.

    Any advice on how to deal with him would be greatly appreciated.

    PA free

    • PA free- Hi and welcome. Almost PA free, aye? I’m sorry for how it came about, but now you have a chance
      for such a much more loving future.

      I would say definitely there is something going on as far as the sale of the house. I know you said you asked him to move out, but is he living in the house or are you? If he is, the answer is pretty obvious he doesn’t want to move. If you are, this is one way of holding on to control of what you do or where you go. That and the fact that if he’s always been irresponsible, there is no reason to think he’s changed. He probably hasn’t shown up when the other people have set the appointments. Maybe it wasn’t “convenient” for him.

      My question to you would be, if you have always had to be the one in charge of things, why would you ever put the sale of your house in his hands? Maybe there is a reason subconsciously that you don’t really want to sell? If that is not the case, I would have people start calling you to make appointments to see the house so that you are aware of everything that is going on.

      Good luck. Selling a house these days isn’t easy under the best of circumstances. Feel free to comment any time and let us know how you’re doing.

      • Hi Ladybeams

        The reason for putting the sale of the house (I’m living in it, he’s moved back to his parents) in his hands was to get back at him for all the years that I’ve had to worry about everything. Obviously that was a mistake. I figured that since he’s got this new love in his life he’d do everything to sell it quickly so he can move on.

        Did I mention that his love is pregnant? That was quick :) They’ve known each other all of 3 months.

        I have avoided him for the past month and a half every time someone was supposed to come and see the house simply because it was very uncomfortable for me to be around him but I made point to be home at the last showing.

        He showed up, we exchanged small talk and then he said that he didn’t think these people were coming because he had phoned them and was told he had the wrong number. About 5 minutes after he left, a car pulls up and people start ringing the doorbell. I phoned him and told him that they were here and that he should come back because I wasn’t comfortable answering the door to strangers. After they saw the house and left he says to me “crap, I was dialing the wrong number”. I just smiled at him and said ” no worries, these things happen”.

        I will give it until the end of the month and will have to get involved otherwise this will drag on for far longer than I’d like it to. Here’s what I don’t understand. He obviously doesn’t care about me anymore and with a new woman and baby on the way, why would he be stalling? I understand the control part of their personality but why bother with that if you so desperately want to move on.

        Thanks again for all the support.

        • PA Free- Ohhh, you are so lucky that he’s moved on to someone else to make miserable. If he can get that mixed up with someone after only 3 months, trust me, it won’t be long before she’ll be crying the blues. As his responsibility grows, the less she’ll be seeing of him.

          Even though he seems so anxious to move on, passive aggressives are terrible about cleaning up loose ends. He leaves, leaves the house to you, leaves any problems to you. It is amazing to me how they can go forward and never look back, be it responsibilities, emotions, any of it. I’m sure as far as he is concerned, you can handle it and when it’s all done he’ll collect whatever is his and that’s that. This is just one more “chore” he doesn’t want to deal with. If you think back, it really is probably consistent with the way he’s handled everything.

          Good luck. At least this last time you got to see first hand how things have been happening. Wrong numbers, wrong appointment times, wrong days, it all comes to the same bottom line.

          • PA free….my husband left, went straight to one of my ‘friends’ and left everything up to me. Packing up our home, selling it, our sons emotional turmoil, bed wetting, night terrors you name it. One year on, he is single, emotionally distant, non-communicative, he sees the boys as much as he can, but takes no responsibility for anything. He has spoken about two words to me in a year. He is seething hatred towards me, but Mr Nice Guy to everyone else. He plays the victim card….they never change…My advice to you is sell fast, move on fast. They don’t care about anyone except themselves and never will.

            Good luck

            Amanda

          • Ladybeams ….. I’m amazed too that these men can just leave the old behind and move onto the new so quickly. Still having a hard time understanding that but like my friend said “a healthy mind will never understand a sick mind”. Just like in the past, if I want something done, I’ll have to do it myself. I actually feel a little sorry for his “new love”. This poor girl has no idea what she has gotten herself into. That said, he’s now her problem, not mine.
            Found out today that he almost got fired before the holidays when his boss found out that he had been dipping his pen in company ink. Things are slowly beginning to unravel for him :)

            Amanda ….. I can’t believe he’d leave you to deal with everything, including explaining to your children. These men are true cowards. You are very brave and strong for having gotten through it. I fortunately didn’t have children with this man (thank god) and I imagine that it must be that much harder having to go through this when there are kids involved. I think that once all is said and done we should be greatful that they left and found someone else to play mind games with. My head knows this and my heart will catch up.
            Thank you for the advice and words of encouragement.

          • PA Free, I am 14 months down the track. I think I cried for 12 of those months. A friend said to me “honey, its time to put your big girl pants on and move on” she was right. Once I got into the swing of things it was easier than I thought. It hurts, but I don’t cry anymore. I exercise, I write, I box, I play the guitar, I pray, I read, I read the bible and slowly but surely this too shall pass. It was my dream to stay married and raise my children in a healthy loving relationship, not his. His was to work, fish, hunt, hang out with the men, then his sons, then me.

            I am happy that your ex’s life is starting to unravel….sit back and enjoy the show :) Life is too short and honestly they do not want to be healthy, so lets all find men who do! Your heart will catch up, be gentle on yourself, take time, talk to your friends, laugh, walk, pick flowers, talk to God, pray and heal….I wish you all the cuddles in the world

            Amanda

      • Sell the house yourself…I did. I did not trust him to do it.

  32. Hello
    I am a 61 year old women that has been married to; I am not sure. Maybe someone Yerevan help. First I thought he was an evil Narcisist.but he is not loudor physically abusive. So When
    my grandson was diagnosed autistic and I read up on that, I thought that is what he is. Then I felt sorry for him. My 34 year old son is ADHD so I read up more on marriage to someone ADD. Then I came across passive / aggressive. This greatly fit except for the sex part. Was others of you confused by all these, because I wool tell you all off these could fit.
    All I know is I am lonely and angry. That I have 41 yrs that I gave my heart n soul, love and caring to who or what? I have twochildren, but for some reason out of the blue, they are both mad at me. Has anyone else read all these differant illness and thought how similiar they all are.
    Thanks Marleen

    • Hi Marleen, Welcome! 41 yrs. is a long time. I’m sorry to hear both your children are angry with you. Have you tried to ask them what you’ve done to upset them? Unfortunately when one parent or the other is passive aggressive, children have a habit of picking up a lot of the same behaviors. It may not even be something you’ve done, but it seems as if there is a legitimate reason, they should be able to discuss it with you.

      Communication is such a biggie when it comes to our children. They learn by example, but when that example is a bit warped ( like having a passive aggressive parent) communication with the non-PA parent is extremely important.

      Good luck. I hope you’re able to bridge the gap. Feel free to pop in anytime and let us know how you’re doing. Maybe someone else will have some helpful suggestions.

  33. Hello. I am two months out of a long term relationship with a passive aggressive man. I have my good days and my bad days. He went for passive aggressive option #1. He has moved on to his next lady, someone who was a good friend of mine. Someone who knew the hurt and pain of how our relationship went south so quickly and my decision to not let him back in after his usual two month reprieve from being in a relationship. (His pattern was to completely withdraw and then run back to me–and I wasn’t going to do that. Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.)

    A passive aggressive man plays the victim so well, they probably believe they are the victim. I met him after he had a divorce from a controlling individual and it was so easy for the community to believe he was the wronged individual. Because he didn’t even take anything from their matrimonial home, the community even pitched in to help furnish his home! Everyone was overjoyed when he separated from his wife.

    The issue here is that I am well respected and liked by the community and he can’t quite seem to be the victim in this case. I don’t like to play victim and am continuing on my merry way, walking with my head up and still continuing my work in the community. Only those close to me know that the smiles don’t quite reach the eyes and have heard me cry and rant and rave. He is actively pursuing his new love in front of me, plying her with affection and attention, plying her child with the same affection and attention.

    My daughter and I got the same treatment in the beginning–in order to gain attention and hero worship he so craved. When I took him off his pedestal, when I confronted him with behaviour that made me feel terrible and that people were taking notice, he withheld sex and attention. By the end, I was nearly driven wild by his passivity and silence!

    What is hurtful was how easy it was for him to walk away like I didn’t matter–and that is why I am on this page. How does one get over that? You make this huge investment of emotion, time, energy and he can just walk away like the investment wasn’t worth his while. I am in therapy, back into exercise, I can sing and dance in my living room again, etc. But I still hurt from his seeming uncaring. Is it possible to suffer from PTSD after being with someone so passive aggressive and narcissistic?

    • Hi Jacqueline

      I could have written that myself! I have two children to my PA ex and 10 years of marriage. He has moved on to my friend and plays the victim still. I don’t know the answer as I still hurt incredibly from his uncaring. He withheld sex from me for two years until I nearly went insane with the silence. It has been 14 months now and he refuses to talk to me because I would not hold the secret any longer and kicked him out….

      If anyone has the answer to getting over that, please let us know!
      Amanda

    • Yes, it is ptsd, it has been 6 months and still feeling the rejection pain from the silents treatments, no communication indirect control withholding affection and emotions, I have trouble moving on, a psychologist diagnosed my pain and depression as ptsd from the p/a relationship

  34. Hi Ladies

    I’m hoping that some of you can shed some light on something I’ve been trying to understand about pa behavior. It’s been almost 4 months since my soon to be ex husband said he wanted a divorce so he could find his own happiness, which I’ve learned he has found in the form of his now 3 month pregnant co-worker.
    What I’ve been trying to figure out is if he ever really loved me at all? I can think of at least 2 instances where he was ready to pack it in and like an idiot I convinced him to stay. I can’t think of a single time where he has ever fought for our relationship.

    If any of you could shed some light on this it’d be greatly appreciated as I’m still new to trying to understand this type of behavior.

    • Hello there, My advice to you (having left my PA husband after 23 years)……is: do not waste your precious time and energy trying to figure out his behaviour or indeed whether he loved you. Count his leaving as a blessing. Move on with your life and spend your time thinking about yourself. In a few years, all this will not matter.
      Wishing you all the best.

      • Hi Mary
        I know that you are absolutely right when you say not to waste my time trying to figure him out. My friends have said the same thing :) I guess that’s easier said than done in my case. Maybe it’s because this is still so new. I hope there will come a time when I don’t think about that, or him, for that matter. I just find his behavior and his uncaring so strange.
        Thanks for the encouraging words.

        • Every time you start thinking about him and his behaviour..just say to yourself “STOP”. By thinking of him he is renting space in your head.Fill it with other things.No body wants destructive tenants!
          All the best.
          Regards

    • Hi,

      The subject about “do they every really love me at all? is one that I think about too and have done a little research, besides my own experience.

      I think they do indeed love at times, like when they are happy with us or we made them happy and when things are going well. Sometimes I liken it to a child, who feels a connection with an adult when they did a good thing are praised. I don’t know if others on the site will agree, but it is what I’ve felt with my husband.

      When my p/a husband tried to make a false reconcilliation this winter and I asked him what he wanted it for, he did say “because I love you and I want to be married”. Less than a week later, he told me he had no romantic love for me, so this is some of my background for the idea. He was mad at me and making amends with his affair partner and I was in the dog house.

      It was what he thought he wanted at the time and since I let him back in, he spoke of love again and I think about it kind of like my reward.

      Also, I suspect that their use of the word “love” is different than ours . For instance, I think maybe they love something about us and their type of love comes and goes, when ours can and often is unconditional and for life. I think they even use love as terminology, as opposed to an emotion, sometimes, because they know that we want it and want to hear it, especially. Maybe it will even get them something they want from us, or it could even be a feeling of gratitude for them that they associate with the “L” word?

      So yes, to sum up, I think they do feel it, but in a different way than non p/a people do.

  35. Hi

    I think you have hit the nail on the head. My ex would show tremendous joy and love only if he got something out of it. Like a new car almost every year that we’ve been together. This of course would only last for a short while and then things would go back to “normal”.
    I also agree with you that the word “love” means something different to them. I should have suspected something was off when my ex proclaimed his “love” to me after only a few weeks of dating. And what do you know, he’s done the same thing with his new girlfriend.
    I’m sorry to hear that your ex made you believe that he wanted to reconcile only to change his mind a week later like it’s some sort of game. At least it’s now easy for all of us to put an end to these mindgames before they start.
    MIne has made no attempt at reconciliation and I am more than ok with that. There were times when I had wished that he would come back home. How much “easier” everything would be.Now, there’s not a hope in hell that I would ever want that man in my life again.
    :)

    • Hi PA Free,

      Your reply made my day! It was a really hard thing to learn. He has been in this affair off and on for less than a year and claims it’s “real”. It is not real but for him and his delusions it is real. When I am stronger, I wish OW well, thinking finally, “she can have it” and wait til her devaluation starts!

      He also even found someone he can manipulate and has even used her family members to work on our house, without telling me who they are! He thought it was okay to bring them here and I think it’s a sign of how different their minds work than ours! He also brought wood for me to burn from there and I would not.

      This makes me gag when I am down and then I pick myself up and remember that he is a user of everyone and she will be no different.

      I am interested in your story, if you have any to share, and especially hearing how you are able to let go and any advice would be great. I get to much from friends and relatives who don’t know the terminology and it’s usually things like “no contact” or “divorce his sorry a..” and so on. I know all that, heard it before, think it, but in reality, it’s not supportive, do you know what I mean? I have a good support system though very few people locally, but it is on their terms and as they see it, if that makes any sense.

      Some of them also can’t tolerate my emotions coming in front of them or just want to swear about him and those are kind of line-crossers for me.

      It’s really been interesting, because the more I learn about p/a and narcissism, which he is to the extreme, I can almost peg ahead of time what his reaction will be.

      I have read lots of online literature that talks about p/a people being like “adult children” and this I find the truest thing about it all. He rages/has fits at me, (only electronically, not to my face) he manipulates any person he can, he lies for his benefit and so on.

      His affair is interesting too, because he comes from a massive polish-catholic, irish and roman catholic family, where the widows don’t remarry, you don’t air your wears in public and so on. He has lead this double life for a year and is now telling them and I know I’m not supposed to think about him and “work on me”, but it is karma that I think about more and how it’s coming around now. The lies are catching up and at long last, other people are hearing them and not tolerating it well.

      Oh yes, when he tried a false reconcilliation, it was the holiday week in 2012 and almost my entire family was visiting my daughter and I for the whole week. He shows up on the doorstep about the same time and apparently they all knew what he was doing except my father, daughter and I. None of them told me when they were here, even when the text message came from the OW ratting him out when he tried to fix things with me. No, I did not want to watch the ball drop, or have champaign, or watch the other couples kissing when my marriage was at its crux. This was my New Year’s Eve.

      Another question fo ranyone on the site with kids and affair spouses, is how much have they been told? Our daughter doesn’t know the whole truth and it is really tough to know that and keep it from her, nor do I want to shatter her images of her father. Mine were shattered as an adult and never recovered, but he has been so public with it all that if she doesn’t already know, how could she not find out?

      Thank you everyone, this site has really helped. I also read about narcissism, as my husband is and it’s also helped me when he have to discuss our house or daughter. I don’t know if it would help anyone else to read about the term, but some say it goes or can be had with people who are also passive aggressive. It’s a pretty amazing thing and also relates to many affairs.

  36. Of course his affair is real, in his head :) It’s amazing how distorted things are in their heads.I’m sure they believe that we are what’s wrong with the relationship, at least that’s how my ex sees things. Poor him.
    Isn’t it funny how the lies are catching up with him and you didn’t even have to do anything to help it along. I too come from a roman catholic background and I find it amazing that he’s been carying on this affair despite his beliefs. As for having her family members work on your house? I think he did this deliberatly in order to test you.He’s probably looking for a negative reaction from you in order to justify his behavior. My ex has called me vindictive, not to my face of course, all in an effort to play his poor me card with his new girlfriend. I have not done a damn thing to him to warrant that kind of comment. Rather, I have done the opposite. Nothing but smiles and pleasantries. I think this throws the PA off. When they don’t get the reaction the expect from us, it takes some of that power away from them and puts it back in our hands. In my opinion, the worst thing that someone can do is give in to their behavior.
    I’m sorry to hear that your NY’s was ruined. Do you think he chose this specific time to try and reconcile? I’m asking because the holidays are tough to get through when things aren’t going well in a marriage and it leaves us vulnerable. Perfect time for the PA to swoop in.
    I completely understand what you said about your friend’s reaction. The last thing you want to hear is that he’s an ass. You know this already :) Many of my friends still don’t understand PA behavior and it’s easier for them to call him names than to try and understand him that’s why this blog is so helpful. We understand the behavior now and the support we get from eachother is priceless :)

    • Hi P/A/ Free,

      Yes, I believe he chose that time to reconcile because my family knew of his affair but I didn’t, so I think he came to block them from me? He monopolized my time and I think it was planned. They were rude to him which was new and puzzling because I was so in the dark.

      I try to do as you with communication and work hard not to engage in back and forth confrontation, but I also work to state my opinion. i stifle myself in order to take the high road sometimes even though I want to call him names and be sarcastic. It’s not easy but otherwise I have dissappointment in myself and feel like his whipping boy, if that makes sense? I feel that if he can feel free to announce his anger, than we both should be able to.

      It’s almost interesting to hear the lies now when he does it to other people and it is of miniscule comfort to know he lies as a way of life and not to me.

      I have heard that it carries over to workplaces and jobs. He has lost two jobs in two years and I not only wonder about that aspect of it, but if he told the truth about them. I know I shouldn’t think about it but it takes such a long time to put the mysteries away, doesn’t it? And I find if I don’t have an answer, the subject will re-enter my mind at odd times and haunt me.

      I wanted to mention that I am not Ladybeams, and want to make sure there isn’t any confusion. I’m someone who had something similar happen like you did and have spent the past year learning about personalities and psychology, both with reading, life and counselors.

      -Rogue13

  37. Hi Rogue13
    I completely understand your “disection” of your marriage and wanting answer to his behavior but I’m starting to realize that Mary is right. It’s a waste of energy. I spent the first month after my ex moved out, at my insistance, torturing myself in trying to figure out how he could have moved on so quickly. Perhaps he was caring this affair on before he left, I’ll never know nor do I care to any more. The more I began to understand PA behavior, the more things made sense. The only question I am now left with is if he ever loved me at all but you answered that perfectly:)
    One suggestion I have, is to write down each incident or behavior of his that you are trying to understand and leave it at that. Knowing that you have documented it may allow you to move on from that specific issue. I’ve tried this out a few times myself and have found that I don’t think about certain things as much as I used to. My brain sort of just moves on from that memory. I don’t go back and read any of it but knowing that I’ve “closed the book” on something that I was obsessing about is very freeing.
    My biggest issue was trying to figure out how after 8 years together my ex was able to get a girl he’s known for a month pregnant. I’ve stopped thinking about it. It’s now simply something that has happened and as betrayed as I may feel we all know how this fairytale is going to end when someone is involved with a PA.

    P.S. Check out the movie” Take This Waltz”. It’s not really about PA behavior but rather about the dynamics of a marriage. The ending made me smile and I hope that it will do the same for you. :)

    • HI PA Free,

      Thank you for your kind words. I like this site a lot because the advice from people on here differs from my virtual “support system” by understanding more psychology behind the things that go on. I don’t know if that makes sense, but psychology speaks to me in ways that other things don’t.

      I agree with what you are saying. There are so many elements to this marriage and affair and other things he did-the dating and porn on the internet while he was stil living here-that it can make my head spin.

      Prior to the holidays and the false rec., I was doing really well. I had basically detatched and knew that I could face many issues and problems for our daughter, house and myself on my own. But following the trick during the holidays, it really knocked me flat again. Just the last few days I am noticing that I am changing in good ways again, like having food cravings, caring that I put pajamas and daytime clothes on, doing chores slowly again. I went back to a very part time job as well and the people there are very kind, mostly ladies who are either spinsters or widows, very sturdy people who grew up on this mountain and never left.

      I have been doing what you suggested with journaling and I have a really good resource in a cousin who is my age and with me through the whole relationship and remembers more than me of the past. She is a great help in some of the sorting and some of my finances so that I don’t have to ask him, such as with taxes. She has an MBA in accounting and is an engineer, so I trust what she has to say, besides knowing me since we were kids.

      I am terribly sorry about the pregnancy and don’t mean to bring up a negative part of a negative thing, OMG! I asked my …spouse that very question when he was pretending to reconcile and he claims nothing like that has happened. However, I am wise enough to know that could be one of the lies. I have this feeling every day that another shoe is going to drop. He says I know all of it now, but I don’t tend to believe what he says.

      I think I am starting to move forwar at a snail’s pace because I can hear the lies when he talks to other people, do you think that is a good sign? And I do not let him blame me for things he does any longer. I work to be polite but not let him walk all over me any more. He is very critical of people and I don’t tolerate that anymore.

      One hard thing is he wants very much to dictate and control his time with our daughter. I have told him that we can keep his schedule to a point, but if another invitation comes up and it’s from out of town friends or relatives, we wil often take it and he can change days. Do you know what he said? “You can check with me first!” He feels that even though he does not live with us anymore that he can be a major part of planning and care for our daughter still and it’s my belief and experience that a person changes their …standing, so to speak, when they do this type of thing.

      The lack of boundaries p/a people have is amazing and new things are coming up with our daughter and her behavior that are not easy to help her with.

      Well, thanks so much for reading my lengthy letters and for your support. Long and lonely nights have been made better when I go online and find sites like these to read.

      I wish you well in your journey, p/a free and hope to become equally as strong. I feel it ebb and flow and am getting better at intercepting and rationalizing the meltdowns.

  38. My PA husband and I split up 1 year 10 months ago (I’m 45). I had to move back to my home (1000′s of miles away. Literally.) with our 3 children and set up our new life. We were together 14 years. He was pure venom, and since we’ve been apart we almost never speak. When we do, he is even more hostile and vicious as ever, blaming me for everything.
    I am doing pretty well now, and so are they kids, and I just wanted to share a few words for the other people who are going through this of what I have learned from this experience.

    I didn’t leave him because:
    1. I was terrified to be on my own
    2. I was waiting for him to cycle back into being ‘normal’
    3. I had married for life and truly believed that our sons needed their father at home.
    4. I loved him.

    Since we have been separated:
    1. I cried for just over one year. (there is a sort-of 1-year rule with the crying).
    2. I waited for him to ‘calm down’ so that we could possibly reconcile.
    3. Then I waited for him to ‘calm down’ so we could establish a friendly, functioning co-parenting relationship.
    4. THEN I waited for him to ‘calm down’ so that we could navigate a divorce. No luck with any of the above.
    5. I cried and felt horrible pain after every phone conversation.
    6. I constantly analyzed him, our relationship, searching for an answer to ‘Why?’
    7. I suffered crippling jealousy and heartbreak over his new relationship.

    The important, good, healthy things I have done:
    1. I found a good therapist who completely validated me and told me I had PTSD.
    2. I got on an anti-depressant and stopped crying. (RECOMMENDED!)
    3. I deliberately stopped myself from thinking about him. (RECOMMENDED)
    4. I have kept my focus on the children. The innocents. I have focused on their well-being and communicated a lot.
    5. I speak honestly about their father’s emotional difficulties but have not trashed him (not easy).
    6. I kept the lines of communication with my family and friends open, but tried not to indulge in too much obsessive talk.
    7. I took care of myself (and I look good!)
    8. After one year, I started dating someone who is absolutely not PA. He. Talks. With. Me.
    9. I have stopped speaking with PA husband. Email only. My parents heaved a sigh of relief when I finally (their words) made this decision.

    What I love about my new life post-PA:
    1. The air doesn’t crackle with tension at home! Our home is so comfortable now.
    2. No one ever gives me ‘the silent treatment’ or says mean things to me. Ever.
    3. I only spend time with positive people who actually like me.
    4. I have my own bedroom – love this! I bought myself a new bed and the solitude and freedom is bliss.
    5. I no longer panic at the idea of not being married. In fact, I really like being single and free. This took a long time to feel this way!
    7. I’ve realized that I am an intelligent, attractive, capable, good person and loving mother, and that he is an angry, miserable person trapped in his shallow, bitter world, and I know that karma will take care of things in the end.

    Now, it’s almost 2 years and PA husband has not done anything to move our divorce forward, even though he couldn’t get rid of me fast enough. He has left the child-rearing entirely to me. He transfers the money into my account every month. He says, ‘I’m just the provider.’ Yup, that’s all he is. And he will be providing for us for a long-ass time.

    Meanwhile, I look great, my children aren’t messed up (hello! thanks to me!), I’m re-establishing my career slowly, I’m comfortable not being a married woman anymore, and I have lots of loving, genuine, fun, REAL people in my life.

    I know how devastatingly painful it is to end a relationship with someone you love who treats your life like a piece of trash to discard. But there’s light… I embrace those who are still in acute pain. Work on yourself. It will get better, I promise. xoxo

    • So true. My story is similar. It does get better. Thankyou.

      • This is an amazing site full of info and support. I am in the beginning stages of getting a divorce from my PA husband. He has been covertly abusing me with his control, demands and feels I have procrastinated about getting a divorce. Procrastinate? I was trying to rebuild our relationship which he does not want to do.

        Last July 2012, we celebrated our 31 years knowing one another when he as on a business trip to Los Angeles. He works in Macau and I was planning to move there in July 2013. I had responsibilities to take care of in the USA before I left. We haven’t had intimacy for over 10 years. He never could explain why. So I having low self esteem accepted his behavior and the years just passed. We celebrated 25 years in St. Lucia and renewed our vows. Still no intimacy. When I met him in LA last year, I had lost weight and felt great about the way I looked. I decided to spark the relationship with an intimate kiss. HE REJECTED ME. He still could not answer why.

        When he returned to China the following week I demanded via skype what was going on. Then he tells me that he doesn’t love me any more, he wasn’t sexually attracted to me and he wants a separation and a divorce. I was so upset. He couldnn’t tell me this in LA? What a coward.

        I was so distraught and traumatized that I am taking a mild anti depressant meds. He has a live in Asian woman living with him with a 19 year old daughter. She is a singer in one of the local pubs and his housekeeper!! He is serious with her and wants to marry her.

        Now he is harassing me about getting the divorce. He shows no remorse or concern for what I have been going through. It’s all about him and what he wants. I have no voice on any thing. He continues to support me but I am afraid if I get upset at him, he will stop sending me the money. I want this nightmare to end so I am no longer obligated to his demands. How can a wonderful, kind, good looking, supportive and caring husband turn into this ugly mean spirited man?

        I am afraid going through the divorce will be nasty so I need your support to keep me positive.

        Thanks for listening.

  39. Hi Everyone
    I am new here and this is my first time posting.
    I am thankful i found this site and have been reading so much about the passive aggressive man. I have been involved with one for what is going to be almost two years now. At first i thought i was going nuts and then i thought i just wasn’t worth it. Let me explain….

    He pursued me pretty hard at the beginning and seemed to be really caring, romantic and an overall great person. Then he started to pull away and this always confused me. The flowers stopped, and all of a sudden i found myself in a relationship with someone who was selfish, withheld affection, sex, and at times just seemed to do the complete opposite of anything that would make me happy. I thought what on earth is going on here?? I am so confused!! What did i do?? Of course whenever i tried to initiate a conversation he would completely withdraw saying he “had to go” and then never calling or texting me back. Then the next day he would just act as if nothing ever happened. I of course enabled this behaviour because i felt i didnt want to come across as needy or bugging him too much.

    Needless to say there were many many lies and breakups in the span of these two years. Me doing most of the breaking up because it was just so frustrating sometimes to not be able to talk to him. Not get any responses from him. Not be able to have any kind of resolutions with him. He kept me at an arm’s length from many aspects of his life. Whenever my bday came around there wasn’t even a card or any effort to make me feel specail. I do have to say that i did and would get nice gifts for xmas and even one vday got chocolates and a teddy bear. I wasn’t told i love you or i care for you or that i mattered. Every once in a blue moon he would say “thanks for being a great friend”. Oh yeah that was another thing… we could never really establish what our relationship really was. Everything had to be on his terms, at his pace, what felt comfortable for him. When we could see eachother. I was invisible in what was supposed to be a two way street. Nope, my needs, my wants, my concerns never mattered. In fact the more i asked for something i felt the less i got it. I even learned to trick and strategize to try to get what i wanted. But it got tiring and frustrating. Not ever knowing where i stood. All these mixed signals. One day we would have a great day and he would invite me to do things with his son and we would do “relationship” things (seeing eachother like every other day) but whenever i tried to ask what was going on i would never get a straight answer.

    Well i just couldnt take it anymore and i again broke it off this past wednesday. I tried to talk to him again about what makes me unhappy but i again got that “he had to go”. I hate feeling lied to. I hate not knowing when i would hear from him next. I hated feeling that someone who i felt so close to and who says that im “a great person/woman” could not see how is actions were saying the complete opposite. I felt so insignificant and even angry that i would allow him to have so much power over me. But every time i break it off, it is me who just wants to go running back.

    My question is, this last time we had a really nasty ugly fight in which i said things i had never said before. Mean things but they were the truth. The fact that he was a liar, a coward an ugly person and that i regretted every having met him. At that moment it felt great to let that out but the next day i felt bad for saying those things and i imediately apologized. Not asking to get back with him just sorry that things had to get so ugly. I felt so out of control and not myself. Of course he never ever apologizes for anything he does.

    My question to anyone and everyone here is: He never responded to my apology. He hasn’t tried to call me. And i can’t help but to feel hurt by this. How can someone you spend so much time with, someone who has been such a good person/friend to you not mean enough to take their feelings into consideration. Does he have no empathy? This is killing me because all i feel like doing is reaching out to him to get a reaction………anything! whether its anger, fear, regret just something that will let me know what he is thinking and feeling. Will he ever reach out to me to make ammends? I feel like the bad person here although logically i know i am not to blame. I tried, I really did. What else am i supposed to do? I cant sit here and allow everything to be on his terms, when he calls, when we see eachother and what about sex??? I sleep next to him sometimes and nothing!! What about affection? What about being cute and cuddling and saying nice things to eachother??
    It’s hard because despite all of this i really enjoyed our friendship and spending time with him. I just thought that by being patient and understanding that he would slowly trust me and that he would come around.
    Why does he not apologize? Will he try to contact me at some point? I dont think i would get back with him but some reaction to how i feel would be nice. To think of how maybe i am feeling as opposed to always making me feel as if he could care less that im not in his life. This is torture to think that maybe he doesnt care? Or does he but he is just “punishing” me? Is it best to leave him alone and let him come to me at some point or should i try again to reach out to him for some type of closure, resolution or something?
    This is very hard because it just goes against any normal interaction that you are used to with other people in relationships. Almost always the other person speaks, expresses themselves to try to find a solution………. it seems as though he doesnt need or want one?

    Can someone please help me to understand?

    Thank you and sorry for the long post.

    • Hi there, Please, please do not waste time on that man! Take it from me .I have just divorced a p.a. man after 20 years. He nearly sent me nuts. Do not waste your time trying to figure him out….you are wasting your precious time.
      Regards
      Mary

    • I am grateful to those who have poured their hearts out on this site. The similarity in these stories to my own is uncanny. I should have walked away the first time I caught a whiff of his lack of character. I has warning signs even before that from his own mouth, tales of pain wrought on others in his life, but that was when he was younger. In the beginning, his explanations were that he “he was thoughtless, he didn’t think it a big deal, he didn’t lie, just forgot to tell blah blah”. It began as a friendship over several years and when he asked me out I was so happy. It was wonderful. Some of the best times I has in my life were with him. Magical stuff. Like God has a hand in it. I still find it hard to believe that the same man then is the worst man ever. The first time I let myself be victim was when he left me in a car that wouldn’t start. We worked together and after work we would chat in my car or his for a while. We kissed goodbye and he still hadn’t got out of my car when I started it up and it died. I tried again and it died. I finally started it but it was shaky and wouldn’t hold an idle. He jumped out of the car, yelling back “let me know if you have any problems”, ran to his car, pulled out of his parking space, and was out of the lot and down the street before I dared to put my chugging car in reverse out of its space. My mind went numb. I knew he should have followed me home. I would have followed him home even though I know nothing about cars. I chugged the car home and called him up:”Hey I made it home ok” he says “oh hey yah good deal, see you tomorrow”. All night I walked around in a brain numbing fog. You see, the pain of realizing he wasn’t a normal person, that he was that self absorbed, this was foreboding, reason to break it off…too painful to think about and I went numb to it. I continued the relationship, when a stronger woman would have kicked him to the curb. Bad as it is, the car story and others like it were kindergarten stuff compared to what was to come. I went down a 5 yr long dark road with who turned out to be the most manipulative, emotionally abusive, deceiver you could ever meet. But you see, he held out his hand and I took it. Sometimes I held out my hand and he took it. Sometimes he walked and I hung on to his shirt tails. What I want to help you with is that I had a hand in my own demise, if you can call it that. Thankfully, after the very last breakup, or his final discarding of me, I finally started to look inward. Since I didn’t know if I should contact him, write a letter, so on, I did nothing. No contact. Finally, my numb brain worked in my favor. It’s given me space to see him for what he really is, he was much more dangerous to me than I could have imagined. I read, first looking at p.a., then narcissisim, then the victims mentality, what type of woman puts up with this, reading the bible, books on spirituality etc. You’re in a dangerous stage if you want to know: why? How could he do this after all we’ve been through? Why won’t he call? It’s killing me? Why?…..Don’t contact him at all. When you miss him re-read these blogs. Look at the bad times you had with him, I guarantee they outweigh the good. Ride it out. Look inward and take steps to be able to see another one coming who’ s just like him. Educate yourself. Forgive yourself. Don’t confront him because he’ll just lie again. Take care and thanks everyone.

  40. Hi Ladies
    I am in need of some advice. Quick recap of my situation, PA husband told me at the end of October that he wanted a divorce because he didn’t love me any more and needed to find his own happiness. I asked him to stay at his parents house until our house sold. He agreed. A few weeks later I found out that he’s sleeping with some 22 year old at work. He of course insists that nothing happened until he moved out :) A month after that, I found out that she’s pregnant. He knocked her up 2 months after he met her.
    I’ve been slowlyputting my life back together. Baby steps. I have my good days and my bad days but the good days are slowly outnumbering the bad once.
    My problem is that I am FURIOUS over the lies he’s been telling people about me. Not at all surprised but them though.
    I recently found out that he told his family that we had been sleeping in seperate rooms 6 months prior to the split (not true) and that I did not want children (also not true).
    I must have moved on to the anger phase of this grieving process because just the thought of those lies fills me with rage. I have not contacted him at all unless it has something to do with the sale of the house. God knows what else he’s been saying. After I found out about the latest lies, I texted him and told him that if he was going to continue in this way we were going to have a major problem. I also told him that I have been nicer to him than he deserves and not to push it. His reponse, “what have I been lying about”? Not surprised with this response at all so I did not reply and I left it at that.
    My question is, have any of you confronted your exes about the lying and if so what was their response? More lies? I’m thinking so. Is there even a point to confronting them? I know the answer is probably NO, but I am so ANGRY and I can only think of one direction to point that anger.
    Also, I recently had lunch with the exes brother’s wife. She seems to be the only one who didn’t buy his bullshit. The rest of the family stuck their heads in the sand. I’m thinking the entire family is PA.
    She has now invited me over for dinner and I am very hesitant. My gut is telling me that I should break all ties with his family I just don’t know how to politely decline. She has been nothing short of nice and supportive.
    Have any of you continued to have a relationship with your exes family?
    Any advice from you ladies would be greatly appreciated.

    • Don’t confront him about the lying. He know he lies, he spends a great deal of energy stacking lies up. Be mad. Call your friends and tell them about your anger. Don’t tell him. He enjoys that. Don’t confide in his family. They will tell him what you are saying and he will enjoy that, too. Tell them the truth, that you should distance yourself from him and it’s not a good time to be with his family. I know that confronting him about his lying would somehow seem to you that he was then punished for his behavior. My ex PA enjoyed hurting me in secret, it gave him a thrill, a zing, to omit, deny, lie, cheat, disclose personal info about me, to sneak, to cast me aside and then come back for more. I’m not capable of doling out the punishment he has coming to him. Read Psalm 54, Complaint against Enemies and a Disloyal Companion. Then go back and read all the Psalms, and jump up to Proverbs and read those, too. You’ll find a little bit about you and a great deal about him. And you’ll see that your anger will fade, and be replaced by pity for him. These men with this personality trait are in grave danger.

    • I believe PA people lie. In fact their whole life is based on lies. Because they cannot confront truth all that’s left is lies. Sometimes it is intentional sometimes it is just their avoidance of anything that could be negative and thus stir up their anxiety about rejection and abandonment. If you do confront do so for yourself facing the truth not to change him. If you really need this you might seek an ally in a therapist. Or does he have a therapist that might mediate.Anyway be ready for it to go badly. Confrontation is their weak suite!!

    • Be careful there. Pa’s use third parties,willing or not. This is one of the awfuls about pa’s you must guard all you say, as it can and will be used against you. I even have to watch what I say to my grown daughters, who might think they are “helping” when in fact they are giving ammunition to him to hurt me THRU them. I would go but remember to listen more than talk and for gosh sakes do not put your true feelings ie hurt, anger or anything out there, as trust me he gets wind of anything negative (no matter how truthful or honest) and he will punish you for it. I know it is hard but you cannot give them ANY ammunition anywhere….benign things….are made into major reasons for revenge. Caution, and can the “truth” in this case it probably won’t set you free…but put you back in his prision of games..Remember you are “out” of the family now and the new “dump ground woman” is iin. Their loyalities will be with the “brother”, yes even his wife…cautionary note….at the least stay nuetral…it will protect you more.

    • I am in the process of researching “overcoming the victimization” of the passive aggressive personality when I came across this.

      I understand where you are. Have been there and still experiencing the effects. In fact, I made an appointment with a therapist today. The emotional and psychological abuse which victims/wives have imposed on us is worst than any physical abuse. I am helping myself to heal and move forward.

      I was married to a passive aggressive individual for many years. I didn’t know, then, what was the problem–he kept saying it was me. My husband, too, impregnated a woman.

      They lie. There is no truth in the passive aggressive individual. You can ask, but you won’t get what you want/need. You can’t help him. Help yourself. It has taken me a long time to get to this point. You will get there. Be good to you.

      His family knows this man has a problem. It sounds like his brother’s wife may be sincere. Consider accepting her invitation.

      You will get through this.

      Sincerely and respectfully,

      Y. Davis

      • Hello,

        This is such a hard type of person to be married to. I’m sorry for your troubles. A counselor is a really good idea. I too was married to a PA man for 20 years and still my head spins if he is in contact.

        Now we are playing the blame game. He had an affair and abandoned us and is working really hard to get me to accept some of the blame. I’ve read and learned that PA people will do their utmost to blame-shift and it is some of the most difficult “conversations” in my whole life.

        I, too, try to keep up with some of the inlaws. Not many are friendly, some just keep to themselves and that’s fine. I try to have lunches as you describe and try to keep neutral as well. Some have been extremely kind and allowed me to see that they have pain from what my “husband” did. He is the youngest of a whole bunch of siblings and always tried to win their approval. It helped me, in an odd way, to realize that he also gave up trying to win their approval by his actions and not just me.

        There is a term called “rug sweeping” that they are famous for and there’s a lot of literature on the web about it. It helps me when I have to be in contact and helps my head to spin less. I learned if I say one reply and stick to it, I’m pretty good!, but it took several years to understand.

        It’s also hard with inlaws because it’s a lot to lose besides a primary relationship, but sometimes when it’s too soon, it’s too hard.

        The advice to have lunch in a neutral place is good. And for what it’s worth, I always check up on the news before I see one of them, so I have something to say or reply.

    • Hi PA Free,
      Its great to see that you have taken the decision to end your relationship with the PA. I’ve been seperated from mine now for 2 years so with that in mind I wanted to respond to your questions
      .
      You asked about confronting the ex re his lying – I did this on several occassions after we split up however all I got back was more lies. So pretty much a pointless exercise really. Initially I wanted to contront him because I was angry and I thought it would make me feel better but it didnt because it ended up in a perpetual cycle of me confronting, him lying, me getting angy…and round and round we went. So I stopped the cycle and slowly but surely my anger subsided.
      All I can say is I understand the anger and why you want to confront him but it won’t do you any favours so try and let the anger go and dont allow him to effect you negatively on an emotional level.

      You asked if anyone had continued a relationship with the ex’s family – I have. I’ve had honest conversations with them all however what I tried to do was not be critical of the ex. How I pitched it was ” Mark and I are both good people however we are not good together as we don’t react to each other in a way that is healthy. I don’t want the fact that we are no longer together to have a negative impact on our relationship however I do need to have your support for that to happen” I then went on to say “I’d be really greatful if during this difficult time you’d mind if we don’t talk about Mark or talk to Mark about anything that we discuss. I just feel that until we both start to heal it could have the potential to cause problems”
      His family have all respected my request and I have a healthy and loving relationship with them.

      Good Luck!!

  41. One of the things I hate the most about being married (now seperated for the second time, a year now) for 35 years to a pa narcissist is that my sense of right and wrong, justice, truth, and love have all been “twisted upside down” and my “earthy” and truthful nature have permantly been put on guard. It is still a prison atmosphere as I navigate the world apart from the damaging personality that he is.

    In short, I cannot be who I am as all of that is turned “negative” by him no matter what, so, as not to give the PA ANY reason to “abuse”…me…or anyone else with his “twistings of the truth or motives”…….I have gone from honest and earthy, to guarded, yes even with my own children (and that hurts our relationship), as like I said a PA can so easily turn what is in the normal world ok, good or a “positive” into a negative. The hate you for your successes as much as they like to emphasize the failures, or weaknesses.

    Think of them as a disease you are taking precautions NOT to catch. See one of those doctor masks over your face (mouth) and reveal NOTHING pro or con about yourself.

    It will be more “revenge” if you give them no ammunition by withholding all things. Ever notice how a pa questions EVERYONE? This is not because they care, but because they are looking for ammunition to manipulate, kinda like J. Edgar Hoover, or McCarthy….. or the Salem Witch trials.

    Any tidbit can backfire on YOU, and will NOT be the same context or meaning it was said in. You know this from being married to them, I call it scripting, and yes mine uses MY OWN words and anedotes and Myna birds them to me, so I found NOT talking to him at all is the best course (or to anyone but my mom about him, or me.) Yes, this applies even if seperated or divoriced. Whatever you do, say, or know will be ammunition, and yes, NO one is off limits (children are their favorite) so even if you don’t talk or tell he will focus on others to find ammunition. Whatever you do will be “trashed or twisted” into a fault. If you move on, manage, or have friends or awards, or whatever….they are vultures and pick the meat off the bones…you know this.

    I hate it.

  42. Just to show you how VINDICTIVE they are, after 35 years of marriage I recently found out hubby had NOT been divoriced five years from wife one and (two, same woman) as he told me (which he now denies and says it is in the past). I even asked and was show a divorice decree (of course I looked for their names and not the date, duh, dumb me). but then I was only 23, and more naive than I thought at the time.

    Turns out he was dating others while still married to his first wife for the second time. (he told me SHE was cheating on him, NOT). Thankfully he was divoriced (final but barely by a year).

    I would NOT have dated someone so “fresh” from divorice, had he been honest as I had very high standards, never dated married, and a year was too new. (yes he lied).

    The kicker: His final divorice from her 2-2-77, our wedding date HE insisted on by eliminating all other possibilities, 2-2-78.

    I NEVER knew….how cruel to me and to his ex. He KNEW what he was doing, and it explains how is family, and kids treated me, and that he wanted to hurt her by taking me, newly married and with NO idea, to her house our first Christmas together. I thought he was just insensitive. NOPE he planned to hurt her with me.

    I feel so awful finding this truth, in just looking at vital stats when bored one day after our final seperation. I was shocked, hurt, angy, and felt totally scammed from the beginning. There is a ten year age diff and this explained lots about how he was still appearing to be attached to HER. I thought five years should have corrected that, well it wasn’t five years divoriced from her, like he said.

    Our marriage started with a lie to two people, and I NEVER knew.
    Through the years he had many many opportunities to clear that up with me, but allowed me to live the lie he told for 35 years.

    Awful, but it came at a time I was starting to weaken, and question myself about our seperation/divorice…so God does work mysteriously.

    Liars, never change. I know no one would believe I didn’t KNOW…but I never did till 35 years later, what else I never did know, one can only imagine. Liar liar…zebras don’t change their stripes.

  43. You see from the above tale, how I, really an “innocent” that was mislead had to bear the brunt (the way everyone treated me like a two bit whore that ruined their marriage), but I did not, nor would I have interferred in anyone’s marriage deliberately) of his lie (s)?

    I was now the “guilty” and have been all these years and I, myself, had been lied to. Even with all the grief…and hurt, as I would never deliberately hurt anyone..(his ex, kids, or myself)…His lie made me the GUILTY in everyone’s eyes.

    No one would believe (then or now) that I didn’t KNOW. But he lied to me, and then let me take the fall, and HE NEVER, told me the truth in all of our 35 years. Just let me take the pain of the others, and his lie without knowing WHY? they were treating me that way.

    It is just awful, and he also blamed me for being estranged from his two children of that marriage when I did everything to try and establish a relationship with them….as I love children. He got estranged because he would dump them on me without asking and leave town, and because both he and his ex USED me as their parent, but were BOTH horribly irresponsible and treated them like packages to drop off somewhere. He and her used to go out of town (supposedly not together, but now I wonder) and just assummed I was available. They arranged it (that I would cover them, together and then TOLD me, I felt sorry for the kids)

    I really loved those poor kids, and did my best, but between his and his ex’s evasiveness and lack of “give a rip” I finally told him they were HIS kids, and it was HIS visitation time and HE needed to be there when it was his “turn” and to stop USING me as his personal babysitter, and then making plans to NOT be there. I also told him perhaps he needed to limit his extra curricular “hobbies and sports” and make himself available to them. His answer?, dump ME (home alone) AND his kids, in favor of himself.

    This should have red flagged me as to what he would do when WE had kids…….yep…….pretty much the same only he told OURS it was my fault the other girls (first marriage) didn’t have a relationship. Total lie to MY own girls…….unbelievable………If I had know the truth you can bet I would have cleared up that lie, right then…but sadly I didn’t and so I took the high road and just let him BLAME….and tried to shelter my kids from worrying that could be THEM too.

    I realize how through the years his selfish lies have hurt me and our girls but…….he always managed to twist his selfish into being mine.

    I really don’t get it now (that his liar spells) have been broken as I choose to “live in my truth” instead of MYTHOMANIA (the place where he lives and everyone has to join him there).

    I don’t “get” why I so wanted to believe he was “trustworthy”, except to say you are lied to so often, you just get used to doing “damage control” so fast that you fail to see or be able to respond to the last one, when here comes another.

    That is the chaos nature of living with a self centered manipulative, LIAR to everyone.

    He is believed as he is in law enforcement, and a military man, and for some reason ALL believe he is “above” the petty lies he tells. In short he has credibility by virtue of his “uniforms”.

    HE is also well trained in manipulation, staying calm, while extracting from others by both his military and pd training. Also, he made sure everyone (me, and our children) knew who buttered the bread, (only wage earner) and so subtle like had “mind” control, by fear we would get NOTHing if we didn’t play his “game”. Sometimes it was NOT subtle at all.

    He drinks too much, and even though others have seen this (bottles falling out of his car when daughter went to use it for driving lessons) they STILL believe the lies, not what they see with their own eyes.

    Actually it is rather astounding how HE can do no wrong in anyone’s eyes including making himself a pitiful example of a man….they want to believe the “image” not the reality they see. I used to be in that club…..NO more.

  44. I have now been PA free for 2 months, after being in a relationship with someone for almost 7 years and engaged for 2 1/2 months.. I have been thinking about posting on this blog for quite some time now. It has been a wonderful support network for me. This blog has helped me keep things into perspective because as you all know your PA significant others have a way of making you feel like your crazy and its all your fault.

    It’s hard to even explain the emotional abuse that he has caused me. I am a happy, fun, free spirited, faithful, always smiling type of person and he sucked the life right out of me.

    I felt constant rejection from him. He basically ignored me and acted like I was the most annoying person in the whole wide world. When I was at my lowest is when he would withdrawal the most. He also acted like I was ugly, overweight and unattractive by withholding sex and affection (but I am not!!). His words barely ever matched his actions which was very difficult and that’s what usually made me feel crazy!! For example he would say things like “I love you so much and of course I’m attracted to you” but then I would initiate sex and he would withhold from me, which felt like an outright rejection. He refused to kiss me even though he knew how much I longed to be kissed. He would constantly break plans or say he would be home and then not show up. He would say I will fix that and then it wouldn’t happen for years or never. One time when I called him out about the procrastination on fixing or doing things I asked him and he said, “I’m not going to do it until you quit asking me”. Another time, he had left tools out on the kitchen table and I left them there for 2 weeks and finally asked him if he would take care of them. He said, “I just wanted to see how long it would take you to ask me to take care of them”. There were times when he slept from 10pm to 3pm the next day and would pretend he was sick so he could sleep instead of hanging out with me. He was never really present, even when we were in the same room or out together, we wouldnt talk much because he was constantly on his phone or computer or Ipad. He actually tried to cut me off from talking to my support network, my mom and sisters, saying it was unhealthy for our relationahip. He finally asked me to marry him after 6 amd 1/2 years, 2 ultimatums, and a 2 week breakup later then once we were engaged he refused to talk about actually getting married. There were good times we had, but they were few and far between and feelings of anxiety, stress, unattractiveness, awkwardness, and low self esteem consumed me almost at all times.

    The list goes on and on and on….. I cannot even believe what I have been through. Also, others typically have no idea what is going on (because i wouldnt tell them all the time) and no one ralizes how good he is at manipulating unless they have been through similar relationships. I felt like if I tried to explain myself, people would really think I was crazy, so i just wouldn’t. The good thing is that I have no ties to him, no kids or marriage to keep me connected to him. I feel so blessed by this. I do not hate him and feel more sorry for him then anything, but please don’t let that suck you back in ladies. He is a product of his childhood from what I have read.

    I wanted reach out to say….. I feel a huge sense of relief, peace, strength, and I am slowly building my confidence back. Yes, i have down moments, but for the most part i feel good, really good and have no doubts about my decision. Some things that helped me get through this…..

    -prayer, I have prayed that God would give me a sign to leave him if that’s what I should do and he did (sent me the book “Living with the Passive Aggressive Man”)
    -prayer again, I prayed for strength and God gave that to me, he has been in contact with my parents, best friends, sisters and everyone telling them he is a changed man, since the breakup, he has left me gifts, begged me back and I have not even been tempted
    -separating my life from his before the breakup: I started filling my evenings with activities that did not include him and then when we broke up I wasn’t feeling like I had to start over, I already started doing that
    -no contact rule: I moved his stuff into my garage and changed the locks, then I called and broke up with him, this sounds cruel, but was the only way for me to succeed and be safe. Since the breakup I have not contacted him one time. I may have responded to 2 emails. As some of you may know when you try to break up with a PA they will do anything to get you to change your mind, they may even get violent. I would not put myself in that predicament again and I highly suggest the same to anyone even thinking about leaving their PA. I have not run into him even though he has tried really hard (another prayer).
    -research: this blog/website really helped me, every time he started being nice and affectionate (he probably only did because he caught wind that I was about to break up with him) I would look at all your lovely posts and that would keep me in check
    -counseling: get a good counselor, mine has really helped me to keep things into perspective as well, helped me to realize it is not me.
    -support network: I have come accross numerous women all around me in my daily life that have been with similar narsistic or PA men. Most if not all of them are either thinking about divorce, getting a divorce, or have already gotten a divorce. Reach out to others, tell them about your story, they may have a similar one to share. There is something to be said about connecting to people that are going through similar situations. It helps validate the fact that you are not crazy!

    Anyway, sorry this is soooo long winded. It feels soooo good to share all this and get it all out. I wish everyone luck and pray that if you have any doubts about your relationship you will find the strength to leave him!!!!! You are all beautiful, lovely, and awesome women (I really haven’t seen many men on here so sorry if I have missed you guys). You can do this and you will feel a whole lot better when you do, I promise!!!!!!

  45. Andrea

    You are right, guess i just needed to hear it from someone else :) Im sure that my confronting him about the lies will only lead to more lies. I just find it hard to remember that when I find out more lies he’s told about me. I also thought that if I confronted him face to face and gave him specific details, he wouldn’t have a choice but to finally tell the truth for the first time in his life. I also know that he’d probably just walk away since we know how much these people love confrontation. So what have you done to get over the anger?
    I’m glad that you’ve been able to maintain a relationship with his family. I don’t think that would work for me. I haven’t heard a word from his parents since I asked him to move out, and he moved back in with them and brought his new girlfriend over 2 weeks later. I’ve come to realize that the entire family is passive aggresive and choose to deal with things by sticking their heads in the sand. When his brother’s wife asked me out for lunch I agreed. She seems to be the only one who sees through his lies. Lunch has now turned into a dinner invitation at her house. I’m ok with meeting up with her but I don’t trust being around his brother. God knows what new set of lies this will lead to, She can’t move on, She wants a relationship with my family so she can win me back, ……
    I think that’s it’s best if I keep my distance.

    • Keep as far away as possible. Do you really need to keep in touch with anyone of them? If you really want to keep in touch with his sister…just do lunch with her. My advice is do lunch in a neutral place or invite her around to your place.
      regards
      Mary

  46. Thanks Ladies for all the wonderful advice. You all are a godsend during this time. I do have some good news, our house finally sold. I thought I’d be sad about this but honestly, it was like yet another burden had been lifted.
    His sister phoned me tonight for the first time in the past 6 months and asked if I wanted to go for coffee. She told me that the family knows he lied to them about everything and had some not so nice things to say about his baby mama.
    I agree with you Mary, distance is best. Even though his sister may not agree with how he’s handled the situation, I know that blood is thicker than water.
    I’m hoping that once the sale is completed I won’t ever have to hear from him again. I asked him to look into a speedier divorce but he knows that the only way that will happen is if he admits that he commited adultery, which he doesn’t think he has.
    Is there any reason that I should thik that he won’t go quietly?

    • Glad that the house sold! remember it is only a house.When and if you have any contact with his family….try not to go on about him.He has already taken too much off your “head space”. Take each day as it comes. Don’t hassle about a speedy divorce as he may use this and drag things out.Let your solicitor deal with that.Don’t get me wrong there will be good days and some bad days…..but the freedom is your reward.When you carry a burden and then get rid off it…it can feel strange..please do not take on another burden off any kind.Enjoy your time….do things that you always wanted to do. e.g.@ zumba classes, learn something new, whatever—- make a list for yourself.
      I wish you the very best in your new chapter in life.
      Regards

      • Glad to hear that your house sold, Mary. I am in a very similar life situation with a PA man who is also extremely narcissistic and who is having an affair on me while I am pregnant.

        So anyway, there is another wonderful website that has some links about this behavior. It’s largely for people dealing with infidelity, but has lots about marriage, family and life. People can just browse or they can post their stories and get feedback/advice. It’s helped me intensely and I wanted to share it. It’s “surviving Infidelity.com”. On it are all kinds of people, from all over the earth, in various stages of dealing with adultery. There are also spouses who did it and want to reconcile.

        Some people will tell it like it is and can come across as more harsh than others, but again, it’s provided more help and comfort to me than some every day life has.

        The advice about meeting with family on your WS side (wayward spouse) is really good, because what if the sister goes back and tells him?

        What I found in that regard is that losing his family for me meant more change and I suspect that’s really what I want to hold onto-any sameness I can. Yes, I too, try to be simple and not give much away for words, for they can show up anywhere on the wind or in the plumbing and come back to haunt.

        What I’m finding is that karma is something that “comes around the mountain” like Grandma and people who lie usually can’t do it forever. My ex is having this happen and is slowly running out of resources in his family and also, they and others are seeing through some of it at a time.

        It’s just so much change all at once, so much to sort through and make sense of.

        And yes, as you fill in the new pages of life’s book, I hope they will contain periods of sun and rainbows now and surety of yourself.

      • Hi Mary
        Why do you think he’d stall on the divorce if I try to speed it up? I’m still so new to this behaviour that anything he does makes my head spin.
        You’re right, it is just a house. I thought I’d be more upset since this was our home but I actually felt a huge relief. I guess I’m making progress even if it is in baby steps :)

        • Hi, Hope all is good with you. He may stall because some PA’s will do that to annoy you. Just toodle on ….the divorce will be granted in it’s own time. Take care. I have lit a candle for you this morning. Everything will work out for you!
          Regards
          Mary

  47. Mary
    Your message made my day. Thank you for your kind and encouraging words. They mean more than you know.
    You are absolutely right. If he knows that it’s something I really want, he’ll drag it out. It helps to be able to predict his behaviour now and I’ve mostly reacted with silence, although that it very difficult at times.
    I received a surprising call from his sister the other day. I didn’t know that it was her calling since her number is blocked. She said that she misses me and that her daughter misses her auntie. That was pretty tough to hear. I was very surprised that she called because I haven’t heard from her since I asked him to move out 6 months ago. She also told me that he lied to the family, which I already knew. She also said some not so nice things about his pregnant girlfriend. I simply told her that I am glad that he left and that I am happy, because he is not the person I thought he was. She also asked me to go for lunch but I will probably decline. I need to move on and keeping in touch with any of them is not a good idea as far as I can see.
    I’m just worried that the next call will be from his mother and I really don’t know what I would say to her.

    • Hello again, Thanks for your lovely reply. You said that his sister called you and SAID SOME NOT SO NICE THINGS about his pregnant girlfriend.Do you really want to know all this nasty stuff?…you certainly do not need it. Take their calls if you want …but be very cautious…..don’t get roped into nonsense.As for his mother, listen to what she has to say, be courteous and very pleasant, sound happy and say very very little. When you don’t get involved with slagging your ex…..they will all soon get fed up phoning.—-Wait and see.
      You take care and try not to give any one much off your precious time. Treasure that time for you to heal. I will be thinking about you. Please believe me…….you will get over all this in due time.
      Kind regards
      Mary

  48. House finally sold! This has been a long time coming :)
    I only have 3 more weeks of none sense to deal with and then it will all be over. I thought I’d be a little upset when it finally sold but surprisingly, I felt as though a huge weight had been lifted.
    I haven’t heard from his mother but have kept in touch with my soon to be ex sister in law. We’ve had some great chats. She of course wanted to know what “happened”. I told her the truth. She said she hadn’t believed any of his lies from the start, we were sleeping in separate rooms for 6 months, I didn’t want children ……..
    I have also managed to keep my communication with him down to a 5 word minimum :), always over text messages.
    The one thing I don’t get is why he feels the need to share things with me that don’t concern me? He texted me one day and told me that he got another job, 5 minutes from my office, due to policy changes at his old job :) He told me the company he’d be working for and when he was starting. My first instinct was to reply and say”what does this have to do with me”? Instead, I simply said “just make sure the money is transferred over for bills”. What was he expecting anyways? A big old CONGRATS!
    I know he took a 10k pay cut at this new job. Seems like a good idea considering he’s going to be a dad in a couple of months.
    So glad the rose coloured glasses were knocked off of my face.

    I haven’t let my guard down at all but should I be expecting more of this unnecessary “sharing”?

    • Hi Pa Free,
      I haven’t been on here for a while but just checked in and saw your positive news re your house! Congratulations ;-)
      I went through the same thing with my Ex re the texting and I dealt with it the way you are. It got less and less over time and I now haven’t heard from him for about 6 months. It’s BLISS!! Your handling it all so well by the sounds of it and you will get there so just keep doing what you are doing and moving forwards. The hurt/pain and the “hold” they have on us slowly subsides with time and distance. It’s taken me 2 years to get to this point but I am now the happiest and most content I’ve been in over 12 years. Keep at it!!! ;-)

      • PA Free,
        So sorry I didn’t respond to your earlier question re how I got over the anger. I’m sure you are still having those moments as I do think it takes time to get to the point were you stop feeling that.

        How I’ve dealt with it is I just stopped showing him my anger. And I mean totally stopped. The minute I stopped showing him, is the moment things started to change. Oh of course I was mad on many occassions but I never ever allowed him to know that. Remember that the PA needs you/me etc to be angry..it’s the whole point of what a PA does and they will never ever change. So I stopped “feeding” him and because he wasn’t getting what he “needed” from me the negative behaviour/communications started to trickle out and they finally stopped.

        Hope that helps a little.
        x

  49. I’ve been with my boyfriend for 6 years and could never understand why he is the way he is. One minute he could be so sweet and the next hes ripping my head off.Our last fight he was blaming everyone else and the way he was raised then gave me the silent treatment and sulked for two days. I researched his behavior and my jaw dropped when I discovered passive aggressiveness. I just thought he was lazy and brought up badly. I also realized I had to break up with him. We cried and hugged each other. he hasnt hugged me in 2 weeks and i also realized that I am the one who has always initiated affection!
    We own a house together and I was shocked he just said “take it” Its not that he’s acting like nothing happened but he just seems almost happy, everything is fine etc. he’s still in the house, back to our routine and my head is spinning. Keep in mind I just realized he is P.A two days ago and we broke up yesterday.

  50. Thank you for being here. I recently left my boyfriend who I was incredibly (and still am) in love with. I can’t get him out of my head and I left him 3 months ago. Time does not seem to be healing because I am so confused. I left him as although he insisted he loved me, he didn’t act like it. I ended up hurting more often than not in the relationship when he wouldn’t be there when he said he would. Ok he was a correctional officer and did work later sometimes – but other times he would just disappear. He would also go quiet, ignore me, tell me he was always honest yet some things he said wouldn’t add up. He was messaging me once a day then disappearing and expecting me to live on those breadcrumbs. He had a terrible childhood. He was adopted (by his real dad and stepmom) after his mom couldn’t look after him and his dad then left him with his stepmom, as he had gone off with yet another woman. He was abused as a child by her second husband until the age of 13. Of course I knew I couldn’t fix any of this as experience has taught me that, but it did make me aware that I should be careful for myself as his backround could have impacted on the way he relates to me. Which I’m sure it did. He’d say “I love you……but” “I love you….although” He said he was open and honest but would clam up during conversations and later say he didn’t want to discuss this or that. He would go for days without talking to people and was incredibly stubborn at times. He won;t discuss anything, his day etc. Conversations seem so one sided and are usually met with “yeahs” and I feel like the one doing all the talking all the time then wonder if I’m boring him or something! My problem is that I left as I felt unloved, and he hasn’t blinked an eyelid at this. It hurts me so much I want to shake him up and say look some one here loves you!! I want so many answers but he wont even engage with me. He’s just shut me out and ignores me. I only sent him two messages – one he played the victim saying I knew he tried to contact me whenever he could. (once a day) The other message never received a response. I didn’t want to get into a game of messages, I don’t know what I want. I think I wanted closure. He would not leave me, he claimed to love me – but was never there. So I had to find my own closure and leave – which tears me up because I’m always wondering if I did the right thing….did he love me…was he really passive aggressive…was I being too sensitive…too demanding? I so desperately want to contact him for answers but know this will be futile and seem so desperate on my part. He said his last partner was an “on and off” relationship and sent other signs that he had very little respect for women. Help – I don’t know how to get him out of my head. Sorry it’s long, rambly, and thanks for reading.

    • I’d just add that I miss him so much and he just walked away with nothing to say about anything! I have so many things I need to say or ask, to which I would ask about when we were together but the answers would never seem to fit. So I’m bursting with all these bottled up thoughts and feelings. Then I question myself. Was he really passive aggressive – was I being too sensitive. Sorry my mind is a muddle.

      But deep down I think I know despite the love I had, the relationship was never going to be fulfilling emotionally for me. There were a few red flags in the beginning which I kind of ignored. When we were talking about what each other look for in a partner I said “what do you like – but don’t tell me bout your ex’s coz a may get a wee bit jealous” and his reply was “I don’t really have ex’s just people I think “why did I date that?”” Other times he told me his girlfriends had been clingy and stalky – wanting to know where he was and what he’d been doing, etc. I think these are pretty normal questions a partner may ask of another?!

      Also that he usually only invites girls back to his place after he’s established “they’re not so crazy that he just can’t stand ‘em.” I paid heed to these warning signs as I thought all these women he has met in the past can’t be wrong and that he was talking quite disrespectfully about them. Although I paid heed and made an exit from the relationship sooner rather than years down the line, as I knew it would never get better, I still question everything. I still want to reach out and contact him. My mind is going round in circles. Is it me or is it him. :-(

      Thank you for giving me a place to write. Sometimes as I write things become clearer.

      • Being rejected, socially annilated or ignored it is proven is very damaging to the human animals social nature. Abusive types inherently understand the pain of this as it was probably done to them during their youth, which is not your problem, but his.

        That doesn’t help, right now, the hurt or the pain of being rendered invisible,and easily rejected, especially by someone that preported to care or love you, or who keeps “appearing to want to engage” in some kind of exchange.

        Know this from a 60 year old granny, no matter your age such behavior hurts our hearts and brains. Also know this, there will be other opportunities to love again, perhaps you already have found this out. Do NOT settle for such abuse of the human spirit, and know this youthful hurt probably save you from a lifetime of the same. Do not spend time with anyone hell bent on destroying your spirit to love and be accepted for WHO you are. Best wishes

  51. For information, he was 7 years my junior – 32 years old. I thought I’d mention this as I’d seen other posts where the spouses were also younger. He always maintained he loved me and there were no others but I always felt he was withholding, and despite insisting he loved me his actions never reflected this. And the zero communication since we broke up almost reinforces this. Urgh. Why did my heart fall for this? It’s so hard for me to find love (I wasn’t even looking) and I find this!

  52. Well, years of what is left of my life have been wasted. I tried everything to have an amicable divorice, without setting myself to be dealing with his bs the rest of my life. I finally had to ask for no contact except by attornies, as any contact with him sucks me back into serving HIM, he cares not what he left behind and can blame me cause he finally forced me into filiing, after hitting me and lying to our child that he had no money, Why, I took control of the finances cause he wouldn’t or paid late and blamed me, or lied about what he did or didn’t pay, or worse used the bill paying as an excuse to skim off the top, or was worse than a spoiled brat in school if he had to do anything responsible but “hide in the yard” and leave me with all else. .

    When he became enraged cause I sat down with his last bill paying session to inform him we would do this together, (as normal people do, meaning have “financial discussions” about expenses other than bills, or that I would need to SEE that he did pay them, he refused to write ONE bill if I was ‘watching” or giving ANY input about them.

    Such childish behavior was the “norm”. We are just a few days away from the final papers and the end, and he is STILL thinking I will pay all his expenses, cause HE doesn’t have any money.
    This is a man that until recently was worth half a mil, but constantly claimed he had NO money and made me sign for everything. Yep, I got all those bills for the last 18 years. He took the “older” closed account bills and ONLY those with his name or joint, anything I paid on credit at HIS instruction or my discreation cause he would NOt deal with the “over our means” aspects of our lives in ANY way, but to hide from it, and claim he didn’t know. Unbelievable, he fabricates and then lives the fabrications. I am tired, much older, and incredibly stress worn OUT. I don’t know if I will survive this at all, but it can be no worse than life with a perpetual liar and nice guy, that isn’t very nice at all.

  53. I am acutally thinking of writing a book on the tactics of manipulations that end up with You the somewhat normal, trying to figure out the bs, It is kinda like a piece of art that you have to stand back far enough to see, and thinking they care like you do is the biggest mistake to being able to see them for what they are spoiled children that are people users, when you stand back you see “what a piece of work they are” and how nothing they say or do is relevant to the big picture of giving a sheet, at all.

    They can and do only care about self the whole time, but since you/we don’t we can’t comprhend what is going on at all or why, and think we can fix, what someone else has broken. NOT.

  54. One thing I noticed, was the ONLY thing he supported me in was “retail theraphy” or taking care of the financial end of things without his help or support. Now I know why, he did not want to be responsible for what he KNEW he would never actually want to pay for. I fell into that trap of he says it is ok, or even encourages me to to spend, at a time I was looking for any alternative or other hobbies to keep me out of the stores. In looking back I see I was “trained” to do this (besides neccessity) as it justified his solitary workalcholism.

    When I looked for alternatives he refused or sabotouged them,and then would encourage me to “splurge”. You would think someone would then realize you have to pay for this with money at some time. Nope, he set me up big time. Has I realized how childish he was I would have seen the “set up” and eventually did, but way too late. Then he goes to court, and refused any knowledge of any “spending” or credit card use or how he gave me “no choices” here, even when asked to “get real” and deal by actually paying some of these off. Nope, it was HIS money and he wasn’t going to pay for my “spendthrift” as he now referred to it.

    I saw too late, it was a very mean and elaborate deception of me, so that he could “play victim”. I mean psychopathic behavior. I am so broken from this happening to me, and I was a SAHM and in reality had NO way to pay, other than his promises that he would, but later absolved himself of any knowledge of this and actually believes his lie even though I have ledgers in his writing proving he DID know about the debit and actually added to it. Never got my proof, before anyone, but he did get the older closed account balances. Why did he not pay the debits when clearly we could afford to? Because he is going to sell the lein he got on the house as his half to pay his half of the bills, so see I the SAHM got all the debits and he will get all the cash money and live cheaply by himself.

    I could die that I was so mislead and so stupid to think we were in this together, I began to feel he would destroy me if I ever called an end to this game and he has, when I did. No justice anywhere, and I LOOK like the problem, when in reality I was victimized just like by those con men that go door to door and cheat people. How did this happen, misplaced trust and he took advantage of it, all around. My punishment for leaving him and his “games”.

  55. The worst part of all of this, I actually thought since I was using credit to take care of the family, home and it’s needs he would do the right thing and when we had the money (through retirement he would pay these off over two or three years) and we would still have plenty to live on, enjoy ourselves and such.

    NOpe. He had a plan to leave me in the dirt or in debt, and hurting. Why I don’t know, and probably never will. I thought I was being the responsible one, taking care of business, and he NEVER had any intention of really doing anything but making sure we were still in debt and me more than him.

    sick, sick, and more sick to find I lived with a monster capable of such “deception and coersion” of my “no money of my own” existance, just the responsibility and debits I am now stuck with the rest of my life. He set out to RUIN me, anyway he could, and did.

  56. Anyone have good advice for going through divorce with PA spouse? Separated almost 4 yrs, but now finally getting to divorce-long story there. He claims that he isn’t going to fight me or drag this out, but already has taken a month to get basic paperwork to me. Excuse after excuse after excuse… I don’t want to get angry because that is what he wants, but I’m paying for it, so I can’t have it go on forever!

    • Good luck. I have been going thru my divorce for 2 yrs so far. He has fought me on every issue. The best thing to do is have your lawyer give him a time table to get things done. This is what I am doing. Each step is outlined and I am exhausted trying to think of every road block he may throw my way. The best part…..he wanted the separation and divorce!

      • Gettingto the other side- Hi! It’s amazing how that works isn’t it? They just can’t help themselves. Even when they want to separate or divorce, they have to keep shooting themselves in the foot because they cannot lay down being passive aggressive for even a moment. Good luck to you My Dear!

        • Right now he is posting on Facebook about relationships and not giving up just because it is hard! LOL. I would love to post back….that hard is all the abuse I have lived thru. BUT I DARE NOT.
          It would be feeding into his game. I have learned to stay away and not feed his fuel. It is so hard. Right now I am getting money to survive on and packing the last few things that I want. I keep reminding myself that this is the best thing for me. I cringe when he is around. My life is not my own and everything I own is gone thru when I am not around. I have been violated in so many ways by this man. I just pray that my day is soon and I will be safe and have all that I need with me.

    • Hi K- Even when they want the divorce, they aren’t really any different than when you were with them being married. Passive aggressive and irresponsible is the same. All you can do is try to control how much you let out of your hands. If you need papers signed, maybe you could take them to him, explain what they are in a nonchalant way, and get him to sign on the spot.

      Good luck. So many times they seem to move at a snail’s pace unless it’s something that really benefits them.

  57. Thanks for the insight. I am dealing with this at the moment. It is the hardest thing to be in.

    We met online and started very casual a year ago. Our contact varies from a few days to a week. We have broken it off 5 times. We have been out together 3 times in a year. Friends know of me..never met them or family.

    He wanted to get together a few weekends ago and I refused. I haven’t seen him in 2 months and it was at the last minute. Well..that was the first time he sarcastically said..oh I guess you have a hot weekend date. Well I reacted..of course. I said I am sure you date and you have made it clear you don’t want anything further with me. He avoided every comment. All he kept saying was..well if you are dating someone I won’t bug you. I expressed how I felt..that is all he kept saying. I finally said…I will get my things and say goodbye. He quit responding. We have been no contact for almost 2 weeks. I am fine with it…hate to say it but I am kind of used to it from him. The times we have broken it off its been 2 weeks to the day.

    Like so many others…we could be perfect if it wasn’t for his issues. I don’t blame myself I never have. I know he needs help and at 42..and several bad relationships…you would think he would get it. I have adored him..we have a great time when we hang out. But that is becoming less and less. I expressed that I am loosing interest a month or so ago. His reply was…I miss you and sorry you feel that way. Wow…really.

    At first I thought..wow this guy is a commitment phobe… Nope….there is way more. He told me a few months back..I am tough…yeah really…no kidding.

    Forunately I am kind of becoming numb to the whole thing. A few months ago…I almost told him I loved him..now those feelings are vanishing. He can’t keep promises or plans. If he makes plans more than a few hours in advance..I either don’t hear from him or he cancels. 3 times was because he was sick..I said again…yeah I don’t know what’s up with that. He never did it again. Now he just doesn’t want to see me. He uses his son as a shield. It’s always I have my son…every weekend. I am busy with his sports. Well…if he would allow me around his family…wouldn’t be an issue…right!?!?

    We will see how long the no contact lasts. I am sure he will break soon.

    I just don’t know how he will come back. In the past its been…I have been doing some thinking..i want to be with you…another lie.

    Who knows this time…if he didn’t owe me some money I wouldn’t care if I heard from him at all. Starting to wonder if I will even see that.

    • Hi Crazyaboutaquas- I’m sorry to hear you have obviously lent him money, but at this point you may still be better off to cut your losses. At the rate the relationship is going, you’ll be lucky if you ever see what he owes you, plus he may just ask you for more. It’s good that your interest is already waning as it only gets worse. Run, don’t walk to the nearest exit. Good luck.

      Of course it’s been past the 2 wks. so he’s probably been back in touch by now. LOL

  58. The “man” who was my alleged boyfriend is definitely Profile #1.

    The first 7 months were great: he pursued me, he asked for dates and kept them!, he messaged me first — using actual sentences strung together, not one-word replies — and didn’t want to say good-bye, and the biggie — he said “I love you” first.

    But, as soon as told him I loved him, too, the backing away and wall-building started. But I didn’t even realize it because HE had pursued ME! Anyway, after months of the hot & cold act, I broke it off. But I felt like I was dying inside, crying every day. I only lasted seven weeks before I reached out to him again, asking if he wanted a “fresh start.”

    I get annoyed with myself for having done that. Because it was like he took my contacting him and giving him “another chance” as condoning his behavior. The bullshit started up again within three months. Most hurtful were the promises to get together (in late night phone calls when I’d afterward realized he’d been drinking, explaining why was so hot and heavy for me) and then bailing at the last second. When I blew up in anger after he pulled that twice in one week, he gave me the silent treatment for three weeks. Even though he’d said he loved me “more than anyone else!” days before he blew off seeing me, he disliked me so much he stopped all contact for three weeks.

    Of course, right away I apologized for getting angry and saying mean things. Of course, I looked up ways to work on the relationship. Of course, I said we needed to actually see each other to work things out. And of course, he just kept ignoring me. Until he got drunk and horny and decided he’d deign to speak to me. At which point — and our relationship was two-and-a-half years old at that point, even with the break — he said, “I think we should just be friends” in a text. When I tried to call him to talk about this, he wouldn’t answer. In fact, he ignored me again for a few more days.

    So I sent him a long email about PA behavior, how it could be worked on through cognitive behavioral therapy, how I still loved him, etc., etc. He wrote back to me to say, “I got your book. I take from it you still care about me. I think being just friends would be best, but it will be hard because I’m so attracted to you.” I was so happy to be having any communication from him at that point, I said I agreed. I roll my eyes at my own self just thinking about that.

    Then out of nowhere he said, “I feel like you’re trying to seduce me.” And that was kind of like, “Wait, what…??” It was then that I knew he had once again been drinking, was horny and was looking for a hot & sex-filled message chat or phone call that would let him know he still had me hanging on.

    I didn’t take his bait, but instead made small talk about movies and the lousy winter weather. He resorted to sulking and one-word replies. Then said he was tired. I didn’t hear from him again for a few days (at that stage, I was so broken that out of self-preservation I didn’t try to call or message him first, for fear he’d just hatefully ignore me again). After four day, when I did hear from him, all he said was, “Have a great weekend.” When I replied, he said nothing else.

    Suddenly, I could feel the whole cycle about to repeat itself: Me sending a message and waiting days for a reply. Him finally replying with “on way to work,” “on way home” (he knew I didn’t want him driving & texting because it’s dangerous so it was his way to keep messaging short), “can’t talk, people around, gotta run,” etc. It would only be a matter of time before he’d get start drinking and “want” me, “need” me, “miss” me, “love” me “more than anyone else!” And I knew if I fell for it, we’d be right back to him pulling away, ignoring me, me questioning what I did wrong, him telling me I’m too sensitive, him telling me I hang on to things too long and can’t ever “just move on,” me getting angry at his diminishing my feelings….

    My brain was fried, my heart was broken. So I unfriended him on Facebook (Oh my god, not THAT awful move!) and left him a message saying with all I felt for him and all I dreamed of doing with him, I couldn’t believe he didn’t respond to what I wrote in the “book” about PA behavior or what we could do to work on our relationship. I said I couldn’t believe he wouldn’t even address his PA behavior, never mind try to fix it. I DID NOT SAY, “Fuck you, leave me alone for life!” I didn’t even say good-bye.

    But, I’m sure hitting the “Unfriend” button made him feel like the poor, put-upon victim. Because it’s been nearly four months since we’ve had contact. He is DEFINITELY profile #1! In all this time, he could have called. He could have written. Hell, he could message me on Facebook, Twitter, you name it — but he doesn’t. He’d rather hang on to his anger so that he feels like he’s controlling the situation.

    And, seriously, if I were to contact him now and to try to mend things, I have no doubt he’d say, “You unfriended me” (the victim), “I wanted to give you space” (the good guy).

    About a month after I unfriended him, I woke up one morning to a “missed phone call” on my cell from a blocked caller. The call came in at 1:30 a.m. When I saw it, I thought, “Hmm, look who learned how to block his own cell number.” I figured he was traveling on business, got drunk in the hotel bar, and wanted to see if I was up so he could make a drunk plea to give him a “get out of jail free card,” which was a favorite phrase when he was trying to charm and cajole me into forgiving some PA behavior. But, like usual with him, I had to GUESS that it was he who called. He would never want me to definitively know anything for sure.

    Anyway, I get mad at myself that I still wish he’d call. I get mad that I miss his voice. I hate that I still want to see him, feel his arms around me and feel his kiss. Every time I feel that way, I have to remind myself of how I felt tricked so often. How the wonderful and intoxicating first seven months of the relationship were the pretend him, and the next two years of hot/cold, love you/ignoring you bullshit were the real him.

    Last night, one of my friends told me that when she gets mad at her boyfriend, he’ll call her, see her, message her right away to try to fix things. “He loves me and hates it if I’m upset,” she said. It really drove home that no matter how much my “boyfriend” said he “cared about” and loved me “more than anyone else,” his actions proved he really didn’t. And I felt stupid, sad and broken-hearted all over again.

  59. It’s kind of shocking how similar these experiences are. I can see the guy who was my alleged “boyfriend” fall into the Profile #1 category. The first 7 1/2 months were great: he pursued me, he asked for dates and kept them!, he messaged me first and didn’t want to say good-bye, and the biggie — he said “I love you” first.

    But, as soon as told him I loved him, too, the backing away and wall-building started. And trust me, at first I didn’t get it because HE had pursued ME! Anyway, after months of the hot & cold act, talking it out, getting upset and him saying he’d “be more consistent,” I broke it off for the first time. But I felt like I was dying inside, crying every day. I lasted less than two months before I reached out to him again.

    I get annoyed with myself for having reached out to him. Because it was like he took that as me condoning his behavior. Which all started up again within three months. Most hurtful were the promises to get together (in late night phone calls when I’d afterward realized he’d been drinking, thus was hot and heavy for me) and then bailing at the last second. This past January, when I blew up in anger after he pulled that twice in one week, he gave me the silent treatment for three weeks.

    Of course, I apologized for getting angry and saying mean things. Of course I looked up ways to work on the relationship. Of course, I said we needed to actually see each other to work things out. And of course he just kept ignoring me. Until he got drunk and horny and decided he’d deign to speak to me. At which point — and our relationship was two-and-a-half years old at that point, even with the break — he said, “I think we should just be friends” in a text. When I tried to call him to talk about this, he wouldn’t answer. In fact, he ignored me again for a few more days.

    So I sent him a long email about PA behavior, how it could be worked on through cognitive behavioral therapy, how I still loved him, etc., etc. He wrote back to me to say something along the lines of, “I got your book. I take from it you still care about me. I think being just friends would be best, but it will be hard because I’m so attracted to you.” I was so happy to be having any communication from him at that point, I said I agreed. I roll my eyes at my own self just thinking about that.

    Then during the same messaging session — out of nowhere — he said, “I feel like you’re trying to seduce me.” And that was kind of like, “Wait, what…??” It was then that I knew he had once again been drinking, was horny and was looking for a hot & sexy message chat or phone call that would let him know he still had me hanging on.

    I didn’t take his bait, but instead made small talk about movies and the lousy winter weather. He started sulking, resorted to one-word replies and then said he was tired. I didn’t hear from him again for a few days (at that point, I was too broken to try to call or message him first, for fear he’d just ignore me). When I did hear from him four days later, all he said was, “Have a great weekend.” When I replied, he said nothing else.

    Suddenly, I could feel the whole cycle about to repeat itself: Me sending a message and waiting days for a reply. Him finally replying with “on way to work,” “on way home” (he knew I didn’t want him driving & texting because it’s dangerous so it was his way to keep messaging short), “can’t talk, people around, gotta run,” etc. It would only be a matter of time before he’d get start drinking and “want” me, “need” me, “miss” me, “love” me “more than anyone else!” And I knew if I fell for it, we’d be right back to him pulling away, ignoring me, me questioning what I did wrong, him telling me I’m too sensitive, him telling me I hang on to things too long and can’t ever “just move on,” me getting angry at his diminishing my feelings….

    My brain was fried, my heart was pounding. I was sick of him never being available to talk EVER. So I unfriended him on Facebook (oh my god, not THAT awful move!) and left him a message saying with all I felt for him and all I dreamed of doing with him, I couldn’t believe he didn’t respond to everything I wrote in the “book” I sent him, and that he wouldn’t even address his PA behavior, never mind try to fix it. I didn’t say, “Fuck you, leave me alone for life!” I didn’t even say good-bye.

    But, I’m sure hitting the “Unfriend” button made him feel like the poor, put-upon victim. Because it’s been nearly four months since we’ve had contact. And he is DEFINITELY profile #1! Because he has my phone number, he knows my email. Hell, he could message me on Facebook, Twitter, you name it — but he doesn’t. He’d rather hang on to his anger so that he feels like he’s controlling the situation.

    About a month after I unfriended him, I woke up one morning to a “missed phone call” on my cell from a blocked caller. The call came in at 1:30 a.m. When I saw it, I thought, “Did he actually block his own number and try to call me?” When he’d travel, he had a habit of drinking at the hotel bar and then messaging me late at night. So I imagined the missed call was him calling me drunk from a hotel, wanting to see if I was up so he could make a drunk plea to give him a “get out of jail free card,’” which was a favorite phrase he’d pull out when he was trying to charm and cajole me into forgiving some PA behavior. I was only guessing.

    But, like USUAL with him, I was GUESSING whether or not the call was from him! And it fit the pattern of him never wanting me to definitively know anything for sure. And it fit the pattern of him being able to deny, deny, deny! Let’s say it was him: If I had answered, he could say whatever because being drunk let him “express himself more easily.” If it WAS him and I tried to call him later, he could deny he made the call and make me like a stupid ass for thinking he’d tried to call me. And if it WAS him, since I didn’t answer, no number showed up… so he remained safe from having shown his hand and perhaps acting human about losing me. But see? This is how the crazy games got my head fucked up. What if the call was just some random kid in Tokyo who dialed me by mistake, right?

    Anyway, I get mad that I still wish he’d call. I get mad that I miss his voice. I hate that I still want to see him, feel his arms around me and feel his kiss. Every time I feel that way, I have to remind myself of how I felt tricked so often. How the wonderful and intoxicating first 7 1/2 months of the relationship were the pretend him, and the next two years of hot/cold, he loves me/he’s ignoring me bullshit were the real him.

    One of my friends told me last night that when she gets mad at her boyfriend, he’ll call her, see her, message her right away to try to fix things. “He loves me and hates it if I’m upset,” she said. It really drove home that no matter how much my “boyfriend” said he “cared,” his actions proved he really didn’t. And I felt sad, stupid, embarrassed for being so naieve — and my heart hurt all over again.

  60. I am new here but have found comfort in reading other posts. I am currently a few days away from a false reconciliation for the third time. Husband and I have been married 2 years, together for 5. I am in so much pain right now that it is unbearable. I don’t have any friends or family members’ support and have basically been dealing with this on my own. I have been seeing a therapist but it does not see to be helping. I am still sad and can’t see the light at the end of the tunnel.

    We separated 4 months ago and he moved out. At first he was example #1 and he did not attempt to win me back for about a month. A month of pure agony hoping and wishing he cared enough to call to say he missed me. Anything. I eventually reached out to him after caving and told him I was thinking of him. He was surprisingly receptive and told me he was having a hard time with the separation too. The conversation was short but it gave me a false sense of hope.

    I did not call him for a few days before he reached out to me. He said he loved me and did not want to be without me. I told him that I felt the same. Then he disappeared. I texted asking why he would do this and he said because he was confused and angry. He was angry that I put him out which was not true. I did everything I could besides getting on my knees and begging him to stay. I came up with endless solutions but it was never enough and he eventually left the house. He started to blame me for everything. How could I treat him that way by kicking him out and I never loved him, he said. He was now acting like example #2. I gave into the guilt trip and was crushed. Maybe I didn’t do enough? Maybe I was being to insensitive towards him? Maybe I had no reason to be so angry? I struggled with this guilt and tried to get him back. The more I pursued the more he ran. Sometimes I would text and he would not respond and other times when he responded it was only to tell me how much I had hurt him and how everything was my fault. Feeling like he did not love me anymore, I asked if he wanted to divorce. He never gave me a straight answer and was always that he was unsure. This was somehow pleasurable for me that he was not pursuing a divorce and I felt as if maybe he did love me and that there was a chance of is getting back. In a weird way I was happy with him avoiding a divorce. It gave me false hope. I stopped talking of divorce and asked him if he wanted to work things through. At first he was for working it out and then backed off saying he was too hurt that I wanted to divorce him.

    Eventually I stopped trying and he would pop up again asking to work it out. I took the bait every time. The final time was him saying that he wanted to move back home. He said he couldn’t be without me. I was so happy! Over a weeks time we made plans for him to move back in but it had not happened just yet. During our planning, We talked consistently and things were great. He said he loved me and couldn’t imagine life without me.

    Then it happened. After things were looking up, I received an email saying that he would not be moving back home because being in the home was too much of a painful reminder to the times I had kicked him out and hurt him with unkind words. He said he could not deal with my rage (when in reality it was not all me as I am not an angry person).

    I replied to his email saying that I was angry that he could play with my heart this way (I know wrong thing to do to show anger but my emotions got the best of me). He did not respond. Nothing in three days. So here I am looking for comfort on the internet. I feel so low. I feel like death would be easier but I refuse to let him get me to that point. I will continue seeing my therapist but as I said it has not been helping and this is my third therapist in 4 years.

    I am in so much pain that I am considering calling him and taking responsibility for everything that went wrong just to stop the hurt. I want to beg for him to take me back which is crazy because I know I didn’t do anything wrong. He left me.

    I don’t know what my purpose is in writing this. I guess to vent a little as I said I have no one to talk to. It would be helpful to know that someone hears me.

  61. HI Katt…I have been through almost all you described. I kicked my P/A husband out March 2014, then regretted it very quickly after. Calling texting and begging him to work things out. Luckily he put me off, made his usual empty promises then did nothing as usual.. I’ve come to the biggest conclusion of all (many many separations later) they believe the grass will be greener for them somewhere else with someone else because they believe we are causing all the problems! (it won’t be ever!!)..They have no idea the problems they are throwing back onto our laps are theirs they own them they have created them…Those problems will follow THEM…When we allow ourselves to be done with them for good…our lives get better. It’s now the end of August and i’ve heard some nasty stories about the things he’s said behind my back. Each time it’s almost a mortal blow to my ego..But in the knowledge of each assault to that ego i am stronger after it. He’s good at destroying his life as i’m sure yours is about to do, if he isn’t already. Mine can’t keep a job, he’s financially immature. They all have the same child like way of looking at the world around them. He doesn’t care what you want or need, he’s the victim of YOUR whatever it is that he’s decided you’ve done to him!!..if you look at how he’s treated you as a woman, as a wife. You will find he hasn’t measured up. Does he withhold things that you need? Does he walk away when you’re trying to have an adult conversation? Does he attempt to be a part of the solution? I felt physically drained, couldn’t get myself out of bed in the morning i hurt so badly. I could not figure out why i was angry at this guy alllll the time..i had rage and anger boiling below the surface everyday. He slept a lot, he watched pornography…ignored me, blamed me, no affection, no conversation, did not take responsibility for anything that he did or did not do….How much of this is true for you as well. He thought he deserved respect…to be treated like a man…and to have every last one of his needs an wants taken care of at the expense of the 2 other people that lived in this house!!!! They are such selfish little boys!!! I promise Katt it gets easier every day that you don’t allow that man to take you down!!!

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