There aren’t any, not really. That’s pretty blunt and harsh, but that’s the reality of the situation. I don’t know if being a woman makes this hard for me to understand, or not being a passive aggressive makes it hard, but either way I don’t get it.
An example: My passive aggressive BF has a young son that got married about 18 months ago. About 2 months ago he called and told his father he and his young bride were getting a divorce. This is probably the 3rd good split since they got married. At this time we don’t know if they have gone back together or if he’s still staying with his mother. The son usually only calls when he is desperate or needs something (typical kid), but my BF hasn’t tried to call and check on him at all. If that were my daughter I’d be checking on her all the time.
We wonder what’s wrong with us when they don’t seem to emotionally connect. It’s not us. It’s them. According to Scott Wetlzer, author of Living With The Passive Aggressive Man. “Unsure of his autonomy and afraid of being alone, he fights his dependency needs, usually by trying to control you. He wants you to think he doesn’t depend on you, but he binds himself closer than he cares to admit. Relationships can become battle grounds, where he can only claim victory if he denies his need for your support.”
Due to their lack of being able to trust, they guard themselves against becoming intimately attached to someone. You have to be kept at arms length and if there is an emotional attachment it is tenuous at best. You are not seen as a person with feelings and needs. They care for you the way they care for a favorite pair of slippers or an old easy-chair. You are there for their comfort and pleasure and are of use as long as you fill their needs.The sad thing is, they can sweet talk you, know all the right things to say, to make you believe that you are loved and adored by a someone who is completely unable to form an emotional connection with anyone.
If you’re in a relationship with a passive aggressive, if forced to deal with the problems you’re having due to their behavior, they will completely withdraw from the relationship and you. They will almost never admit that they were wrong no matter how much evidence you show. They have their own version of reality and will work at making your view distorted. That is how they end up making us second guess ourselves. They arguments can actually seem more logical than what we believe ourselves to be the truth!
In many (I would say most) cases of a relationship, it’s not unusual for them to withhold sex as a weapon against us. Again according to Scott Wetzler, author of Living With The Passive Aggressive Man, “Abstinence is a common complaint from women involved with passive aggressive men”. He goes on to say “His sexual refusal, however, will usually be hidden under the guise of a transparent excuse: he’s sleepy, sick, preoccupied with work.”
At one time I figured the reason the BF wasn’t very aggressive toward me when it came to sex was because I was too heavy. I lost 50 lbs. He said I looked good, etc. but in the bedroom nothing changed. That was before I realized how passive aggressive the BF is and while most men are having sex with their partner in order to connect more deeply with her, the passive aggressive man withholds sex from his partner in order to keep himself safe and to show her who the boss is. Sex is a weapon to be used, not a way of connecting more emotionally.
Filed under: abuse, causes, coping, hidden feelings, mental health, passive aggressive, passive aggressive behavior, personality disorders, trust | Tagged: mental health, passive aggressive and emotions, passive aggressive behavior, passive aggressive personality, passive aggressive relationships, passive aggressive spouse, sex and the passive aggressive, trust issues |
P.A. Don't Stand For Palo Alto 
“They have their own version of reality and will work at making your view distorted. That is how they end up making us second guess ourselves. They arguments can actually seem more logical than what we believe ourselves to be the truth!”
Yeah, I think that’s the truth. I think that this is what takes passive aggressiveness out of the annoying category and makes it emotional abuse. It’s annoying when someone doesn’t do something they’re supposed to do, but the really bad part is when we change reality to suit our needs.
The thing about it is that we can believe our own stories and become so detached from reality that we don’t even know what we’re doing or why. I don’t think that’s an excuse or anything, just part of the crazy.
My parents had a passive aggressive sexual pattern, which is different than your BF, but still passive and aggressive. My mother was the abusive, out of control addict type, and my father was passive aggressive as hell, which is the only strategy that works for dealing with mom because she is so out of control.
Dad was also secretly gay and sleeping with my uncle (my mother’s sister’s husband.) How passive aggressive is that? My dad never openly disagreed with my mother, but he screwed around behind her back a whole lot. He also did a lot of things to imply that she was fat and undesirable, although he never said it explicitly.
Unsurprisingly, I have done some similar things. I haven’t actually cheated, but when I get angry at a boyfriend, I’ll totally go surf the personal ads, or maybe flirt with someone, or become friends with a guy where there’s a sexual subtext. I have done these things over and over again. I’ve also done the withdrawing sexually thing.
Of course, if someone else did these things to me, I would be devastated.
I don’t know if I’m being helpful here. What I want to say is that you’re not alone and that you are right to trust your instincts! And, that I’m sorry.
Thank you so much Val.
What a mess aye? It must have really screwed up your family when all that stuff about your Dad came out. I was curious, do you have siblings? How are they doing?
Just to let you know, it’s not unusual with or without any kind of emotional problems, for us to look for gratification elsewhere for validation. I don’t mean cheating, but like you said about flirting a little, etc. I think we all at some point look at the greener grass on the other side. It’s what you do about it that counts.
I always said when I was bartending that it was the greatest ego trip in the world. It’s nice to feel wanted and attractive. Flirting, etc. is part of the business. I was just lucky my BF was an ex-bartender so he understood. I still always was a good girl and came home to him.
I hope you have a wonderful Thanksgiving and like I said “knowing there is a problem is half the way there to beating it”. At least you know what not to do to make this a good day, or at least have the ability to think it through.
I have 2 siblings. My brother is an addict and depressed. My sister is also a bit of a mess. She’s not passive aggressive. I think she has a martyr complex and depression, plus low self esteem.
This is all new to me. Thirty-nine years with this guy although I did leave him for five years after twenty-two years of marriage. He talked me into going back with him and made promises that he never did keep. Recently I got back from the chiropractic only to find a note saying that he had left me. I did not see this coming and I cannot tell you the state of shock it left me in. No warning what so ever. We weren’t fighting or even cold to one another. We had even gone out to breakfast two days before. I had gotten accustomed to his moods and his weeks and weeks of the silent treatment. I thought all marriages must be this way behind closed doors. Goodness only know that I went out of my way to hide the destruction in our marriage.
Now that I finally realize that I am dealing with a passive aggressive man, I think I might be able to salvage what is left of my own self esteem. He is finally going for counseling by his own choice however he has lead his family (who by the way I think are probably passive aggressive as well) and our (really mine) friends to believe that I am the reason. After all, I must be someone really evil to drive such a ‘nice guy’ into counseling right????
This has been a nightmare for me. All those years and all my counseling because he had me convinced it was me. My adult kids have absolutely no respect for me. They watched him demean me over the years and now they demean me in front of their father….and me not being to understand why he never stands up for me. I have had no choice but to stand up for myself and thus him and my kids consider me a bitch.
I never wanted to be the ‘bad guy’ in our marriage but I was left with no other alternative. He felt that love meant never saying no to his kids. He had no trouble saying no to me though. Abuse….Let me count the ways. No hitting though although I wish he had so that I would have had a reason to leave him. A lot of damage has been done and now I have to deal with everyone thinking that it is my fault. It is a wonder I am still sane.
Hi Karen, and Welcome! I’m so sorry you are learning about this stuff so late. Unfortunately, kids modeling after what they perceive to be the stronger parent is not unusual in a passive aggressive relationship. As in any relationship that children watch, if one parent has no respect for a parent, the child will usually not either. I don’t know how old your kids are, but it’s a shame that as they have grown older they haven’t been able to see what has and is happening. Have you tried communicating with them concerning your feelings and how it hurts you that they are so demeaning to you? What is really sad is they will likely carry many of these bad habits into their own relationships and never get it that it is what they are doing that is causing destruction.
I can’t say it surprises me that your husband left you a note to tell you he was gone. Passive aggressives usually can’t handle any kind of confrontation. That’s probably why you never saw it coming. If he had said anything, he would have had to talk about it, God forbid. These same kind of people are the ones that end a relationship by text message, or changing their status on one or more of the social sites.
I’m really sorry for “all your years of counseling” no one ever let you know that what you were going through definitely wasn’t normal, and wasn’t you. I usually recommend therapy as a for of support, but it doesn’t sound like you were getting any. Like any other business, you get some good therapists and some bad ones. It doesn’t sound like you had very good luck.
As far as what everyone thinks you can’t do much about that, and really why care? They don’t write your paychecks, they don’t live in your skin, and most of them if they are small minded enough to be judging you, you don’t need them anyway. No one’s opinion of you is more important than your opinion of yourself. I know it’s hard sometimes to put that into practice but it’s true. If you need new friends that are more supportive of you and who you are, then get some. There’s no law saying you have to keep the friends that were mutual friends while you were married.
It’s terrible that you have had 34 years of this, but now you’re free. Free to be the real you, free to do what you want, and free to live your life like you mean it! I know it’s an old cliche, but today really is the first day of the rest of your life. Live it as if it was your last. You may just find out happiness has been waiting for you to visit for a very long time.
Good luck. Come back and let us know how you’re doing and what you’re learning. It helps some of us live vicariously, and gives others help and courage. LOL
At 61 and retired it is hard for me to think ahead with much enthusiasm. I come from an entirely different generation in which a couple stayed together in a marriage. Any abuse in a marriage other than physical abuse was not yet recognized. Your were supposed to feel blessed because you were married to a hard working man.
My husband is also of this generation and he still feels that I am the reason he left and says that he is willing to come back as long as I am willing to change my personality.
He is still convinced that I am the cause of all his ails and woes and the cause of his underlying anger. His biggest issue with me is that I disagree with our kids from time to time and that they end up with their feelings hurt…Imagine! Both of our kids (33 & 35) are married and totally think he is in the right and that I am the one who is destroying our family. They said that he is the nicest guy and that I am the one who acts nasty to him. I tried talking to them however they are convinced that I am the one who should fix this. I have not as yet run the PA thing by them but will soon.
Our daughter can sometimes be very nasty to her husband. She is however very sweet to her friends. Her husband truly loves her but I can’t help wonder how long it will last. She and her dad have what they think is a truly wonderful relationship even though she can sometimes say mean and nasty things to me knowing that her father will never call her on it. If I call her on it, my husband and her husband get upset at me so it is a catch 22 situation.
She had her first baby three weeks ago so I am waiting a while before I set boundaries as her hormones are still all over the place. She has been suffering from what I now think is post partem mania or perhaps even cyclomythia. She is settling down somewhat however has done and said some really bazaar things over the last few weeks for which she has not apologized and now has asked that we just put it behind us.
My son on the other hand is a super husband and a super father, however I see that he is disrespectful to his wife in many of the same ways that he is disrespectful to me. I called him on this a couple of months before my husband left when he said something very sexually inappropriate to me in front of my husband, who of course said nothing. Since our separation, my son has apologized to me for his behavior however still sees me as being at fault in the breakup.
At around age 20 he was diagnosed as possibly being bipolar but has since gone on to have a productive life without medication. Now however I am wondering if my husband might even have a passive aggressive personality disorder or even cyclomythia. This whole situation is such a mess. I certainly have a lot of things to wade through and a lot to think about. I just wish our house would sell so that I can move on.
Karen
Hi Karen- Glad you found your way back. Congratulations on your new grandbaby!
“he is willing to come back as long as I am willing to change my personality”. Oooh, I could feel the hair raise on the back of my neck. LOL. Have you ever asked him why he thinks you are the way you are? Or what it is he thinks you are reacting to? Doesn’t he take any responsibility? Does he really think he is the perfect husband? (a lot of them do). I don’t know if you’ve ever just tried to calmly talk to him, like a heart to heart, and just let him know how much it hurts you when he…
but if you have and he still feels like you said, there is no hope. 61 is the new 51, didn’t anyone tell you? You’re never too old to be happy, just sometimes too late, like after you’re dead. As for the kids, I got blamed when I left my ex also, but they got over it, especially when they stayed with him and saw for themselves what he was like. It didn’t take the little ones to long, but the older one it took awhile and something tragic for her to get it. Now none of them have seen him for many, many years. I’m not saying that that is good either, but if your kids understand how truly unhappy and mistreated you’ve been all these years, they’ll get over it. If they don’t, well it’s sad, but they have their own lives. They aren’t living yours. You’ve been the good wife and mother, time for you to set boundries on what you will accept, and make you happy. None of us lives forever. Is anyone going to think any better of you or love you more for living so miserably? You said up to this point they don’t treat you well and don’t respect you. Really, what have you got to lose? No kid at any age is happy about their parents splitting up.
When you get ready to tell them about the passive aggressiveness, be sure and explain that it comes from years before you were even a part of his life. Did he have a bad childhood? An abusive father or mother? These are all things you’ll want to be able to put together for them when you have your talk. Hopefully they will begin to see the signs and understand. If your daughter is mean to her husband, you could ask her why, or how she would handle it if he was that way toward her. She may have picked a man that doesn’t really stand up for himself to model the life between you and her father.
Until you brought it up, I had never heard of cyclomythia before, but according to my research only .4 to less than 1% of people have it. So many people have passive aggressive personality disorder that they’ve taken it out of the book of disorders until they could categorize and outline it better. LOL.
Do you have your house up for sale? I know when I was ready to go the children were all small, I worked at home and we had a ton of bills. I didn’t think I could afford to take care of them and pay the bills, but when my husband decided to file bankruptcy, that was my way out. He wouldn’t leave the house so the kids and I did. It was hard, but we made it, and it was all worth it.
I’m a realtor in California. I don’t know what state you’re in, but if I can answer any questions for you when you get ready to or do sell, don’t hesitate to ask. It doesn’t cost anything. LOL. I had another lady on here that was going through some real estate stuff with her husband and an estate that needed settling, and I was able to give her a couple of tips so she could protect herself. DRE 00950917(license #. I have to do that by law now if I tell you I’m a Realtor).
As always, I wish you the best of luck. I know what you’re going through isn’t easy. It’s hard to make the decisions you’re facing now, but you still have a lot of life and the whole world in front of you. I urge you to grab it. It’s better than regret.
How public a forum is this website and does the world at large have access to what I am writing?
Although it is good to finally chat with someone who understands what it is like to live with a passive aggressive man, I am reluctant to expose my thoughts if this is a public forum.
Hi Karen- It’s pretty public. Everyone has the same access as you do. I can understand how you feel. This site is not extremely well known or anything, but a lot of people do pass by here. I don’t know how they would know which Karen it is unless you put actual last names, etc. Your email address isn’t published which is the only way I know that someone may know it’s you, otherwise it’s pretty anonymous. I hope this helps.
Well from what I can see, nobody else has commented on my rants so my guess is that not too many people check out this site on a regular basis. It is somewhat uncomfortable for me to air my problems in so public a forum however like you said, they don’t know who I am.
To answer your question….yes our house is for sale but so far no bites. I don’t live in the US but have spent the last thirty-five years with a man who transferred regularly with his work and with having bought and sold homes with practically every move, I have a fairly good grasp on real estate. I was the one who usually handled these things. As for being able to protect myself financially, I am totally on top of things having spent the majority of my adult life working is a very interesting and somewhat related field.
My husband is not very savvy when it comes to computers and doesn’t realize that I am able to go in and check the history of the sites he had visited. This is how I was able to find out that he has opened new accounts at two if not three different banks and if push were to ever come to shove, I know how to get a court order to freeze his accounts. I hope that it never comes to that but I am prepared if it ever does. I did confront him about these new bank accounts though. He was totally baffled as to how I knew and I simply said that we live in a very small community. Another time he asked me again how I knew, and I know I must have floored him when I said that I make it my business to know these things.
I was however able to use this to talk to him about his trust issues in opening these bank accounts. Right away tried to turn it back on me by saying that he never knew how I would react when he left. I was able to focus on his trust issues and let him know that his waiting for the ‘other shoe to drop’ was his issue not mine and I was able to point out that I had a very lengthy track record of not doing underhanded things and was able to hopefully show him that if he were to really take a look at himself he’d be able to see that.
I must say, with the counseling that he is pursuing and with his finally being able take a hard look at being a passive aggressive, he is starting to become open to possibility that he has an anger problem stemming from his childhood. Who knows, maybe some day he will be able to sort through his problems, however I am not sure he will ever be able to see the damage it has done to me, our marriage and our kids.
I learned something very important about myself after I left him in 1992 and that was that I was able to pick myself up and make a new life for myself. A fairly comfortable one at that and not one where I was, as he perceived, totally dependent on him. I really think this was something that surprised and may have unnerved him.
When we reconciled in 1996, I never did totally opt out of my own benefits plan like health care, which I can reactivate, and I do have my own pension plan, etc. Just to be on the safe side however, I recently made copies of our investment papers, etc, and our income tax returns for the last ten years….just in case he ends up trying to bury anything. Sad to have to be like this but I am the only person I can really depend on in the end right? Funny how life turns out sometimes.
This is definitely not how I pictured my ‘golden years’. I do at least have my own friends and community involvements, etc. He was always mister anti-social when it came to doing things together and always seemed to end up finding an excuse for getting out of anything we did which involved other people.
I think, perhaps more hope, that there will be a happy ending to this story and if there is then it will be one of my own making and not of his. I don’t know what the future holds but I do know that it has to be a heck of a lot better that the past.
Good morning, Karen- Happy Sunday and God Bless!
I’m glad you decided to share here. I don’t really think you have to worry.
I’m also glad you sound pretty worldly and have a pretty good handle on taking care of yourself. I didn’t realize you had been through the whole “split” thing once before. That teaches you in a hurry, aye? The only thing I would say is I’m not sure I would have told him you know about the other accounts, as that may cause him to either move them, or open new ones somewhere else to stash money. You are so right, it is sad to have to live keeping one eye open all the time. It’s not the way it is supposed to be between spouses, but it seems to be necessary.
That’s good that you can see some progress with his therapy. This also should make it easier to talk about with your children. You never know, he may be one of the few that truly is open to changing. I don’t know if you read my post about age regression. It had more to do with why a passive aggressive withholds sex, but you may find it interesting.
It’s good that you have built your own friends and are involved outside the marriage. This ends up being such a strong support system should you have to go it alone. Good luck. I’ll be waiting to hear how it’s going. I’m also putting up a great collection of articles by a wonderful person named John Shore on why women stay in abusive relationships. I’ll put in the current post when I get it up. You may want a copy. I don’t know how religious you are, but he’s very Christian. Hopefully, like everything else you’ll take out of it what is useful to you and leave the rest.
Hi, I have stumbled on PA as I was looking for reasons why my husband of three months treated me so badly….. It is a relief but also terrifying to think that we may never be able to sort things out……I recognise a lot of what is being said here and elsewhere, so realise that the difficulty is going to be to get him to recognise what he is doing!
Best wishes to all.
Hi Terry- Welcome.
I am so sorry to hear you have been married so short a time and the abuse is already started. You should still be in the “honeymoon” stage. Unfortunately none of us can hide who we truly are forever.
My first instinct is to tell you to run like crazy. Don’t pass go and don’t collect $200 as the old saying goes. Barring that and assuming you want to give your marriage a fair shot, I would say you need to set boundaries and take control of his treatment of you quickly. Let him know up front when he’s doing something that is hurtful or mean to you. Let him know how what he’s doing makes you feel and that it is not okay, and try to do this calmly. A reaction out of you, tears, yelling, is exactly what he’s looking for to get gratification that what he’s doing is working. You need to remain calm and matter-of-factly even when you feel like tearing your hair out. It’s sad that we have to handle things like a chess game, but that’s pretty much exactly what you have to do to try and stop him from making you crazy.
Feel free to stop by anytime and let us know how you’re doing. There are a lot of old timers here. You may learn early some things it’s taken us years to get down. LOL.
Reading through your site and realizing that my husband is also a passive aggressive person. I read elsewhere that PA’s are usually late and procrastinate which also describes my husband. I just found out my husband has been having affairs since we have been married (10 yrs). I know of 3 women now and I think there are many more. Is it possible to be a Passive Aggressive Sex Addict? I haven’t confronted him on this yet because I need a little more time to find a lawyer and gather my life up. I did find out that he knows that I know and he hasn’t confronted me on it either. I think he thinks that I am ok with all this and will learn to accept it. I don’t understand how he can think this way.
Janice- I’m so sorry to hear you found your husband has been cheating on you. As if everything else isn’t enough to deal with, finding out they’re cheating can be devastating.
I’m sure it is possible for a passive aggressive to be a sex addict, although usually when a passive aggressive gets involved with someone it seems they cut off the sex and use it as a form of punishment. You didn’t mention how your sex life was with your PA. Is he still intimate with you? The one thing I would say about a PA cheating is it usually would be just sexual, vs. actually being involved with someone else, not that that makes it any better. It also wouldn’t be unusual that he doesn’t get intimate with you because you’re his wife, a person he looks at as an authority figure, but would go have meaningless sex anywhere else he could find it.
I’m glad to hear you are planning first, and getting your ducks in a row, before actually making the split. While it is hard to keep living the lie, in the long run it can make it easier if you have built up your strength and have a plan. Once he knows you are going for a divorce, a passive aggressive can be extremely uncooperative and petty. If you have any small items that are especially meaningful to you, or jewelry that is special, I would put those things away somewhere so they don’t disappear or become part of a battle.
I wish you the best of luck. Please feel free to come back anytime and let us know how you’re doing. I hope reading through the comments here give you some hope and encouragement for a better life ahead.
There is no hope for these people. Personally after being involved with one for several years I believe they are psychopathic. Psychopaths have no emotions for anyone except themselves. While only 3% or less of the population is psychopathic, 97% of the prisoners in our country are psychopaths. If you’re involved with one I suggest you RUN before you end up in some terrible situation. They really do deserve to be put away in a jail cell. All of them.
DW- Hi and Welcome! Thanks for your input. I’m sure you are not the only one on this site who feels as you do. LOL.
Even in that you are not alone.
DW- Thanks for your input. If only there was a law against stomping on another’s heart and self esteem.
Hi I have had marriage problems for a long time, I think my husband might have passive aggressive tendencies. I have mentioned it to him before, but found it very hard to describe exactly what he was doing that was so hurtful. I had been very unhappy in my marriage and about a year ago I had an affair, it was very short lived, my husband knows and ever since then we have been trying to work it out. I know that what I did was absolutely wrong, but I also worry that I might be passive aggressive in my actions too. Having said that the affair happened because I was just so tired and have had many conversations with my husband over the years to try and address our issues with nothing ever really changing. I have spent a lot of time trying to be better, more considerate, more loving, less critical, more supportive. You know what I mean all the baloney that we put ourselves through. I have messed up my marriage in the sense that I really hurt my husband a lot and I deeply regret it. I have been very depressed sometimes over the years, and have wondered if I was a real commitment phobe and if the problem was really me. I know I have only ever wanted someone to love me. I’m just not sure where to go from here, I am in therapy and seeing a councillor, I come from a very self aware family, my sister is a councillor, my husband has expressed at different points and in different ways that he feels violated if I ever talk to anyone about our problems and I have tried to consider him, but I also felt that it was unreasonable to want me to never speak to anyone about anything that ever happened in my life if it involved him. Eventually I think I just rebelled and told stuff to whoever I felt comfy with, but feel like maybe that was mean spirited and wrong.
Ahhh this is so confusing, I have 4 children, one of them is severly disabled, one of them has severe learning difficulties and we are finally in a house to meet the needs of my children, and because of what i did he is dropping all these hints about moving. My kids have been moved from pillar to post, they need stability, but how would I stay here if we split. I do some very part time work, I would be willing to work more, but my youngest child has just started fitting again recently and may need major surgery on his spine which could be life threatening.
I dont know what to do, help, advice anyone?
Hannah- I’m so sorry for your circumstances. It’s hard enough being married to a PA, if you are, let alone having to go through raising special needs children with him. If like most PAs, I’m sure he has let you down a lot.
Yes, I agree having an affair, as you found out, is not the answer. In most cases it only makes things worse. I always advocate splitting first if things have gotten so bad you need to find comfort in someone else. That being said, you and your husband are obviously trying to work through it.
Not wanting you to talk to anyone about your problems in the marriage is your husband’s way of isolating you. We are all weaker if we have no support, no one to help validate our feelings. I would also say he doesn’t want anyone (especially your family and friends) to know how he treats you behind closed doors. Ignore that wish of his. You have a right to have a support system, and we all need it. If your sister and you are really close, you may want to get her view on things also, as well as with your counselor.
As for the moving, when your husband drops his “hints” I would just tell him like you told us here, your children have been moved enough and they need a stable home life, that you’re not going anywhere for awhile. If your husband did leave, do you have a room or two in your house you could rent out to help with the costs? Maybe you could take some work in that you could do out of your home?
Your counselor may be able to help you explore some of these possibilities. Good luck. Maybe you’ll get a couple more answers from the others here that may have an idea or two. Feel free to let us know how you’re doing.