I’ve read a lot of stories on the web of what people are going through, living in a passive aggressive relationship, and I consider myself quite lucky actually. My particular PA isn’t too bad when it comes to angry outbursts, or actually blaming me out loud for anything particular. It’s quite the “status quo” relationship. For me at this time in my life, it’s okay. I’m older. I have many life changes going on, and I have some messes to clean up from my last business. I’m busy. I don’t know what will happen when all that’s done, but for now…
There are a lot of people out there living with a passive aggressive spouse that aren’t so lucky. Their hearts have been breaking for years. They have gone from independence to co-dependent, from strong to begging to be loved, from confident to feeling not worthy. People living with passive aggressive spouses are often confused, not realizing what they’re dealing with, thinking it may be all their own fault. Many people living with passive aggressive spouses still love their spouses so much, even tho they’re terribly unhappy, they can’t bring themselves to give up on the marriage and leave.
As I read through these heart wrenching stories of the failed marriage counseling, the failed tries at communication, and the failed tries at intimacy, it occurred to me that living with a passive aggressive partner is a lot like living with an alcoholic. Alcoholics are good at mental abuse. Yes I realize a lot are also good at physical abuse, but I’m just talking about the similarities to passive aggressive behavior.
The alcoholic goes and gets drunk, feels guilty, comes home and starts some kind of fight to feel better about himself, and make you feel bad. When he sobers up, he says how sorry he is (sincerely), says what an idiot he is, and asks you to forgive him. You feel sorry for him because he obviously feels so bad. You forgive him, he’s manipulated you, you’ve enabled him, and so it goes until the next time. (Unless you’ve already been through that so many times it doesn’t work anymore, but until then, this is usually how it goes). Sound familiar?
Voila! Al-Anon. Al-anon is an organization for helping sober people cope with Alcoholic spouses. When I attended Al-anon many years ago while married to an alcoholic husband, they were teaching men/women how to live their lives with their spouses, but without them. Let me explain.
It was supporting spouses of Alcoholics to pursue their own interests, to unwrap their world from around someone else. To regain their independence and realize they didn’t have to feel guilty over what the spouse did and the spouses behavior. I haven’t really seen many support groups for spouses of Passive Aggressives, especially since Doctors don’t even classify it as a personality disorder anymore. This seems like the almost perfect first step to getting the support we all need so badly to get our lives back to some sort of sanity. For me, I started emotionally backing up (detaching) a while ago. If you feel like you just couldn’t stand being without him/her, maybe this would be a good starting point. It’s like group therapy with coping skills.
Filed under: abuse, alcoholic, coping, mental health, passive aggressive behavior, personality disorders | Tagged: Al-anon, alcoholics, coping skills, passive aggressive behavior, personality disorder, spouses
A Series of Articles written by 
My common-law is PA. Very difficult after four years, wanting to leave, but having alot of self-doubt.
Laurel-
First of all, thanks for taking the time to read and comment.
Second, I’m sorry to hear about you having a ruff time. I have to tell you, in my opinion and from what I’ve read, it doesn’t get better as time goes on. Passive aggressive “significant others” breed self doubt in ourselves. I don’t know what your situation is, but time only errodes what self esteem you have left if you stay in this kind of relationship. If you feel you’ve tried getting thru to him and it’s hopeless, staying there unhappily won’t help you or him.
I’ve stayed for 9 yrs. and we are more in a “just friends” relationship that lovers or BF and GF. As he has withheld intimacy and emotion from me, I have retreated myself. I only stayed this long because this is okay with me for now, but time keeps going, and any part of your life you let pass is gone forever. It should be time well spent.
Good luck to you and keep in touch and let me know how you’re doing.
It’s so good to know we are not alone. I am in the process of legal separation. I have been married 24 years and have four wonderful children. My PA husband was the nicest, most passive, person I’d ever met. For a decade, I excused his ineptitude, forgetfulness, and distorted thinking as some sort of learning disability, and blamed myself for his constant lies. It’s taken 22 years of fighting his battles, mounting confusion, and desperation for me to stop destroying myself long enough to see the fatal dysfunction in our relationship. Ending this codependency is a tremendous challenge. After years of self-doubt and dismissal, it’s hard to stop feeling like nothing and take responsibility for who I am. To the point, in looking for Alanon meetings for support, I stumbled across the site :
http://www.joy2meu.com/emotional_honesty.htm
I found it helpful, insughtful – perhaps others will as well.
I’m trying to keep my sense of humor…
“That which does not kill us makes us stronger” : )
Barbara- I’m so sorry to hear about what you’re going through. It’s so sad at any time, but after 24 yrs. I know it can be really tough. It was so much harder to know back then what you were getting into also. I think the phrase “passive aggressive” has just been coined the last few years.
We are definitely not alone. Just so many “victims” don’t realize what it is they’re dealing with until they’ve been too miserable for too long.
I thought Alanon was a good place to start also. After all, they do teach about living your life regardless of what your “other” is doing. They are also very supportive and welcoming, at least that’s how the group was I went to.
Thanks for leaving the link. I’m going to check it out right away. Be sure and check out the link I have in the blogroll for the Passive aggressive discussion site. You might find a lot of help there also.
Good luck to you and please, let me know how you’re doing.
hi. its good to read of others struggles. believe it or not i am a psychotherapist married to a passive aggressive psychiatrist. this is the third marriage for both of us, we both had two bad luck situations before. if it were not for this being my third marriage, i would probably want to leave, especially after reading and i dentifying this behavior. I have known for awhile, but not sought help,deluding myself into thinking i could make it better. he had a screed up childhood and he was a “project.” that’s what a lot of us therpists end up doing unless we have our acts together. i wanted stability for my teenage daughter, as well. i love him very much, but i am exhausted, and depressed. of course I am the one on prozac, not him. reading these stories has helped. i will check out the website, as well. thanks to all of you.
Dearest Susan,
I am so sorry to hear you so sad. You’re on your way to making it better for yourself. Now you know what is happening and why you’re so depressed. That’s what’s great, is finding out it’s not you! So, next step is “be happy”. What was that book years ago “I’m okay, You’re okay”
If you need immediate support, a great place to get it is Al-anon. Yes it’s for families of alcoholics, but they are all about spouses etc. that love their “others” but have to learn to live for themselves. I was married to an alcoholic that it took me a long time to leave because of how I felt. The group was great and if you tell them your situation, they will be very supportive I’m sure.
Please feel free to check in anytime. I’d love to hear how you’re doing and swap “PA” stories. Sometimes it helps just to be able to share with someone else.
Married 22 years +.
Separated from PA husband off and on for a year….
If I file for divorce, what kind of behavior can I expect from him other than stalling and obstructing etc? Any thoughts?
Thanks, please don’t publish email address.
Nan- Thanks for stopping by.
You’re in a tuff spot. It’s amazing how they know just the right stuff to say and do to keep you coming back “off and on for a year” aye? I’m sorry after 22 yrs it hasn’t worked out for you.
I’m no expert, but it depends on what kind of PA you have, how he will react. Mine is extremely passive, but once it’s over, it’s over. Because they never truly develop an emotional connection, they can truly let go.
Just by the nature of the beast, so to speak, I would expect that there will be times you set appointments to have him sign papers or for meetings etc. where he will either be late and you have to wait on him, or he may not show at all and then have some excuse.
Once you get him to sign the papers, if you get them back, if he’s passive enough he may not even show up for court and everything will go right through. Obviously I don’t know how complicated your situation is, kids, property, etc. but if it’s pretty simple, this could very well be the case.
Are you in a position to hand deliver the papers, or will you have him served? That will probably be the first stumbling block. If you have him served, they may lay around for awhile before he gets them back to you.
Just remember, they were never really there to start with, so don’t be surprised or disappointed if he doesn’t “fight” for you. That’s generally not their way.
I live have been married to PA for 9 years, and at times I have had to threaten to leave in order for his behavior to improve (of course it is only for a little while). My question is this; my husband’s PA expresses itself interpersonally, between him and I, and also financially. My life is a roller coaster of financial stress. I am struggling with health problems and depression because of all the stress I have been coping with for 9 years. I am worried that his procrastination and irresponsibility are on the way to becoming dangerous to me and my children. Is it common for PA to literally destroy their lives in order to continue being the victim? Thanks so much.
Kim
Dear Kim,
As I say, I am no expert, but yes they can completely destroy themselves and anyone involved with them financially or emotionally. Their lack of financial responsibility is just one more way they may take out their resentment of having “to do something.” Many of them resent working for the family, just one more thing they feel they have no say in, no control over.
If this is hurting your health and you’re afraid it’s also hurting your children, you should seek some professional help. Maybe you can get to a marriage counselor, altho there again unfortunately change is usually short lasting, if at all. There are “free” programs or programs done on a “sliding scale” based on your income if you can’t afford a therapist. I would also recommend clicking on the link to the PA discussion site I have under the blogroll.
Good luck to you. I know it’s hard, but if it’s affecting your health because of the stress, you need to do something right away. If not for yourself, for your children.
Im just learning about passive aggressive spouses – my husband left me this week for the fifth time in two years of marriage – the day we came back from a break away. Of course its all my fault. Like I say Im just learning, but I dont think retreating yourself is the answer….Ive done it.. (before I knew about the PA stuff). it worked the first time.. he came at me with flowers and missed me… but I learned thats what they do!. I just think that retreating yourself is punishing you and not him.. hes happy if you retreat coz he knows hes upsetting you. I think Ive decided to be strong.. and be me… my husband says the marriage is over and wont come back (been said before though) but can he come round to collect some stuff… I think we have to stop being victims and at the same time find away to difuse their behaviour so we dont get over angry (which is what they want). I dont have the answers yet, but im pretty sure I wont be retreating again. Im not a victim.. im a fighter.
Cinders- Good for you! It sounds like you’re getting a handle on what is going on and moving from being a victim to being a victor. It’s very hard to go through a break up with anyone you have spent a fair amount of time with and had a special love for. The one thing I have found is that every time it happens, it makes it a little easier the next time. I think it’s inevitable that you hold back a little each time you make up, being a little more afraid or defensive against getting hurt so much should it happen again. There are some really good books on the subject of passive aggressive personality. If you click on the Amazon link you can see some of the ones I have listed that are recommended. Also the link to the passive aggressive discussion site is good and so is this blog that Barbara above suggested, altho this one is more help on breaking co-dependency, which is equally important. http://www.joy2meu.com/index.html
Good luck and keep in touch.
I only read one post so far..Barbaras..I am sooo mentally tired and have read so much about PA’s and its like they are cloned ! I am divorcing after 24 years too. I have 4 wonderul kids too and I cant take the evasive, lying, forgetfullness, running out of gas, bad checks, forgotten children…now I face the the visitaion of two younger children and have to live with this stress..I only pray that the day in and day out of freedom will somehow strenghten me for the times he is to be ” responsible” for our two younger children. This may not make sence to anyone….its as I have read so many times…crazy making…now as the divorce proceeds he has become more AGGRESIVELY PASSIVE I believe to try and force me to reunite…It hasnt worked….Will the anger ever subside? He has been the child that never grew up in all these parenting years of mine and I need peace…
Tress-
Hi Tress,
24 yrs. is a long time to be so unhappy. You must be a strong lady as it’s also hard after that long to let go. Even though you’re facing visitation now, after the first few times (when he’s late, doesn’t show, or has some excuse) you may find you have to deal with that less than you think. It’s actually just one more “obligation” he will probably resent and end up fluffing off. This is hard on the children and will be hard for them to understand. What I did was just not tell them he was coming, etc. until I knew it was an absolutely sure thing.
They say time heals all wounds, and in time the anger does, or should, subside depending on how much you have to deal with because of still being tied to him with children. Like I said, it’s my guess you’ll see him less and less.
Good luck to you and stay strong. Life’s too short. Don’t forget to find a few of the good things in every day to help you along your way. Stop by anytime.
My husband has started the “worming” pattern now…
lol.. well you have to laugh or else you would go mental! By that I mean.. “woming his way back in” .. normally he leaves me until I give in, ask him to forgive me and beg him to come home.; Ive had an email saying how much he loves me but thinks we should part….but he loves me so much he wants to give it another go and hopes i can change! (couldnt you just kill him ???!!!!!)
Well im not budging.. I did apologise for the stuff I did.. but he never apologises for the stuff he does…but Ive not asked him to come back…that is what hes waiting for…he wont ask to come home himself because thats giving in… its ridiculous.
The thing I wont forgive or forget is the fact that he has never once asked me what I want to do. Do I want to end the marriage.. do I want to get back together.. Do I still love him? No…its all…what he wants and what he feels..
Well he can stay in his grotty bedsit and eating junk food.
He called to pick up some mail… and I didnt even feel anything for him anymore. Whilst he was hugging me and saying he missed me.
Im a Christian and I dont want to give up on marriage because of that… but in the end its his decision to leave and he has to acknowledge that, take responsibility for it and whatever happens to him next.
Most people say PAs dont change without thereapy and advice ways to deal with them.. but I think we have to take care of ourselves and realise who we are and what we are and that they actually cannot manage without us though we can manage without them! Ive spent too long fixing things in this marriage and its time he either steps up or moves on!!
ooohhh Im getting assertive ! lol
Cinders- Thanks so much for stopping by and sharing.
I love that “hopes you can change” aye? Isn’t that typical?
Unfortunately, even with therapy a lot of PAs never change because they can never truly admit they have a problem. I think it’s great (and probably a bit of a relief) that you are taking care of you. I understand about not believing in divorce because of religious reasons, but I don’t think keeping yourself in a hopeless situation is something God wants for us either. Life’s too short.
I’d be interested to know what he says when you tell him you want him to apologize for his share of what’s going wrong in your marriage? There’s nothing wrong with being assertive and asking for what you want. LOL.
Good luck and let me know how you’re doing.
hi well ive had some abusive texts from him now after the weekends “I love you” “I miss you” – “do you want to go out for a meal?” and im afraid he got to me again.. and i lost my temper…(just what they want you to do) he blows hot and cold and He just wont give a straight answser but turns it all around…”Do you want to end this marriage?” I ask…..”Im not living in YOUR house” his reply…
well I really lost it and sent some texts of my own saying a few things that that hed done to me over the past two years…. a proper rant it was! Called him a jelous sulky child…….I know were probably not supposed to do that! That just confirms to him that hes right and I am the enemy instead of his own mind being the real enemy! They have to have somebody to blame for their problems and as a wife – your the nearest target!
I have to blank him from my life now for my own sake. Hes accusing me unfairly and I just want him to see hes wrong! I know thats never going to happen….I have to quit all communications even if it kills me – they can sulk and cut off so easily, but its difficult for me – its so hard for me.. I dont know how to get him out of my head and just get on with my life. Ive got a good life – family, new job actually, friends – I dont need him….but how do I stop this terrible hurting that hes putting me through? I agree with what you say about God not wanting me in an abusive relationship… I have to trust Him and let go somehow of the control and believe that whatevers best for me will happen…. I have two options only…..he changes..or its over! and im not budging on that.
But.. How do I get him out of my head and stop this pain – Can anybody help?
Doesn’t it make you mad when you get mad when you know that’s what they’re looking for? I get so mad at myself when I let him get to me. I try so hard to handle it all with a sense of humor (so I don’t cry). Don’t beat yourself up for that though. Sometimes you just have to let it out. Keeping it all pent up doesn’t solve anything either.
You’re right about how easily they cut off. I think it’s because they’re never really emotionally out there to start with. I cannot get over the fact that my BF never calls his kids, or his friends, or anyone that he supposedly cares about.
As for getting past this, there is no real answers to how you do this, you just have to figure out the best way that you know how, so that you are taking care of you first. The most important thing that you can do when you are in the process of a split is to take care of yourself. You need to make sure that you are staying healthy and happy because you are most important.
I’m glad to hear the rest of your life is going so well. I think you need to rely on the good things more than ever now. If cutting off communication with him is best for you and you know it, then that’s what you should do until you have a chance to heal a bit. I know it’s hard. I’ve shed my share of tears, but prayer, keeping busy and good old “time” will help. If you can afford it, a good psychologist can be quite helpful also. You might try finding a support group. They can be very helpful, not only with ideas for how to handle your situation, but the friendships you forge also, and most of them are either free or minimal to join.
You hang in there girl. The sooner you accept that you probably will never get from him what you want, the better off you’ll be. What is that quote, Dr. Phil I think, “do you want to be right or do you want to be happy?” Please, keep in touch.
PS
You might want to take a look at my “recommended reading” list. There are a couple of books in there about dealing with a passive aggressive. Good luck.
can I ask ? Does anybody out there have a happy relationship with one of these guys or has everybody finally given up and moved on?
I’m afraid Cinders, not very many. There are a lot that have stayed for years and years, only to give up trying and end up in divorce, etc.
The only way I have found to be “ok” with the BF is that I understand who he is and what he is. I either accept it or I don’t. If I actually wanted love and passion in a relationship, I’d probably be “out of here” also. For me a sort of “friendship” is okay for now. If I was a bit younger that probably wouldn’t be the case.
my husband has completely blanked me now.. he says his feelings are dead towards me and thats that. I dont know what to do. because really i want him back. however, i dont want all that crap with it.. im so confused. i know its what they do…but i think hes beating me down again….i was doing so well., but….
Aw, Cinders, I’m so sorry you’re going through all this.
“he says his feelings are dead towards me and thats that.”
This may be a ploy, playing “hard to get” or it may be for real. We have to remember they are never really emotionally attached to us anyhow. If you really want him back, then you have to accept the crap. No complaining, etc. because you’re making that choice. Or, are you sure you don’t want him back now because he says he doesn’t want you? Sometimes we get caught up in that.
You are doing so well and you have so much of the hard part already worked out for yourself, the job, new friends, etc. Unfortunately with time we’re built to not have such a good memory about how bad things were. Maybe you should take a little time and revisit that. You may find it easier to remember why you wanted out in the first place.
If you have time, visit the link on the side for “getting past your past”. It’s really a terrific site w/some really good advice. I just bought a “no contact” bracelet for my daughter who has a hard time letting go. It’s really a cute idea and I could see how it would work.
Good luck and stay strong in whatever you decide to do. It might also help you to go back and read some of your comments here. I don’t know if you have any children, but you may consider what his being passive aggressive in your relationship is doing to them.
I have been married for 20 years to a passive agressive man – and am so tired of this roller coaster -please tell me if I am wrong – I am so hurt that my heart is hardened by all that he has done to me – he has no remorse, has never apologized and I just want him to hurt as bad as he had hurt me.
Here are just a few things-
borrowed my credit card to put $300 on it – when it got to $9,000 I had the card cancelled and had to cash in a life insurance policy to pay it off which then left me with bad credit.
The bank called when the house payment had not been paid for 4 months to say they were forclosing – I had to come up with $2,400 that day in order to prevent the foreclosure
He borrowed $7,000 from my mother and has never paid her back – that was about 4 years ago
I had $1,800 saved for new furniture – he needed it for just a week but of course I never saw it again
He was sued to $35,000 but didn’t tell me – had the house refinanced to pay off the judgement – I found out from a anonomous letter about this.
That is just the money part – then there is what I call the neglect.
While in labor and having contractions three minutes apart he did not want to go out in the cold to take me to hospital. After my son was born I came home to a child that was less than 24 hours old and an 18 month old – he went to pharmacy to get my prescription and was gone for hours – his buddy and I walked the floors with two crying kids and I had to call his father to bring me dinner.
I was born with a kidney defect and had several surgeries before having the kidney removed. It was never convenient for him to be with me during any of my surgeries and the day I was at Johns Hopkins having my kidney removed he went to Hard Rock and the Inner Harbor while my girlfriend and sister had to decide with the Dr. whether to remove my kidney or discontinue the surgery since he was not there. Then he left that night to come home before I ever got out of recovery and in a room – he came back a couple of days later……and can’t figure out why my heart is so hurt.
I scheduled family pictures for a Saturday afternoon – come time to have them done I could not find him – he was at lunch with a bunch of guys at the local deli. Needless to say he is not in the family picture.
I am sorry this is so long – I am at wits end as to what to do – have two great kids but just can’t ride this roller coaster any more – he says he has done nothing wrong and I live in the past – it will happen again…..always does….. ANY suggestions!!
HELP
Dear Karen,
My gosh, how have you stood it for 22 yrs.? If my passive aggressive was that bad he’d have been gone long ago. He’s a little annoying, but that’s about it.
First, you’re right. With a history like this it most likely will happen again and again. I hope you are doing something for you like seeing a therapist, your clergy, somebody that can validate your feelings and self worth.
Second, most will never admit nor apologize for their part in the deterioration of the relationship. They don’t believe anything is wrong with them and they need to place the blame on you. The only self defense you have is to know that this is the standard MO for a passive aggressive, and that it isn’t you. Read books, joing support groups, whatever you need to do to stand firm in this belief. Otherwise you will drive yourself crazy wondering how to do things differently.
The third thing I personally would do is if you are good at saving, I would start putting money away in case you ever decide to leave or for a rainy day. This time, don’t tell him you have it. If he doesn’t know about it, he can’t spend it.
As far as the house is concerned, if it’s in both of your names he shouldn’t be able to refinance without your
signature. If he did, he and the title company, etc. have committed fraud, a criminal offense.
No matter how much you love him, you need to start being proactive in protecting yourself, and in turn that will make it possible to protect your children. Take advantage of the free help and support that’s all around you. Al Anon is a good place to start, or your county health dept. for emotional support, or even church. Any where you can be amongst people who make you feel good. There are links in the side columns here for other resources. Start pulling everything you can together to get yourself ok with you, then you can deal with the situation you’re in, what ever you decide to do about it.
Feel free to stop by anytime. I’m no doctor or anything, but sometimes it just helps to talk to somebody that is going thru similar circumstances. Good luck to you.
isnt it all so difficult? I mean its like living in a soap opera.. all that drama!
My husband said he wont live with me but he wouldnt mind meeting up for “fun” now and again. Good Lord !
What a **** hes become. then he picked me up from work (to collect some paperwork from me) and dropped me at home – I was cold as ice (well who wouldnt be after that!) and when he got home he text me..”Am sorry! Driving off that street tonight was the hardest thing ive done inmy life – as if ive been stabbed through the heart”
what a drama queen! IT doesnt even mean anything that text.
I dont even understand it.
not replied and wont contact him again no matter what he does….
Reading what others have been through.. Ive only been married two years and am emotionally drained and ive just lost all respect and love for him now…I wonder if its best to let it all go – it doesnt sound like it ever gets better…………..
Hi Cinders,
So he wants to be “friends with benefits” aye? That’s what we call it here when there’s none of the responsibility of a relationship, just the sex. I don’t blame you for being insulted.
I read your next comment also before replying. You wonder if it’s time to let go. I would say that it depends on how you truly feel about this man. You were right, for many it never gets any better and you just end up wasting many years being unhappy and wondering what might have been.
If you want to try and save your marriage, talk to your husband, calmly if you can. Be sure to use the right verbage like “I feel like “this” when you do “that” or “when you do “this” it makes me feel like “this”. This kind of language is supposed to not be like an accusation and not raise some sort of defensive behavior. Hopefully you can communicate. My P/A doesn’t communicate at all, so I wish you all the luck in the world.
You might want to ask him about going to a marriage counselor. See if you get any co-operation at all. If you do, that’s terrific! If you don’t, don’t be surprised. I would still seek counseling for yourself. See if you can get any referrrals from some of your closest friends. Some times you have to try a couple of them before you find one you actually connect with. Don’t let this dissuade you. You’ll get there.
If you truly already feel you’ve lost it with this man, don’t waste any time. I’m sorry for your loss, but you need to take care of you. I don’t feel anyone should waste the life God gave us being miserable. I guess I got that when my mother who should have left my father 3 days after they were married for cheating on her, waited 18 yrs., many affairs on his part, and all they did was screw up my sister and my life by fighting all of the time. Start setting things up getting prepared for you to leave. Start saving a little money here and there on your own that only you know about. Start paying down any debt you’re responsible for. The less you have to depend on him for anything, the less contact, the better off you’ll be.
Whatever you choose, just remember many of us have been there, done that. You’re never alone. Also, as you read back through the posts just on this site, there are many that wish they would have known what they were dealing with back when they were with their partner after only 2 yrs. instead of so many years later. God Bless you, My Dear, whatever you decide to do. Please keep in touch and let us know how you are doing. What ever you are going through may be a spark of hope or comfort to someone else living through the same thing.
I stumbled across this site. My ex is a huge P/A. I was with him for 11 years (we never married because he knew that that was what I wanted more than anything and there was always some bullshit excuse!!) We own property together though and he is now with the hoe he was having an affair on me with. The lies, the crazymaking… For years I thought it was me, why was I such a bad person (my ex is financially responsible which was one good thing and works hard at his job). Otherwise, he is a pothead, binge drinker (one DUI), constantly late, always putting me last. The only time he truly seemed to be a nice guy is when I had cancer at 23 and was not asking anything of him! The sucky thing is he is really good at his manipulations ~ I still want the guy ~ I broke up with him 3 months ago after I found out about the cheating ~ he is still with this whore!! Anyways, he lies and tells me he isn’t and of course I find out he is. He looks like such a sweet person to people who don’t know him but was always the meanest to me. He also could give a shit less about spending anytime with his parents. I wish I still didn’t love him ~ I know I can’t save him ~ I know I need to move on but it’s so hard. He is very charming when he wants to be; I had become his doormat and my self esteem is zero.
Laura- I’m glad you found us and I’m also glad to hear at least you have broken up with this guy. He sounds like an all around jerk, not just a P/A (no offense). If he’s cheating on you, and then even after the break up denies he’s with someone when you absolutely know he is, you need to run, not walk to the nearest exit.
It is so hard to walk away and stay away when you still have so much feeling for him. I know. I too have cried my share of tears when determining that a break up was the only way to save myself. You’ve pretty much made the hardest move already by getting out. Now you need to start getting your affairs in order to break ties with him. I don’t know what kind of property you have together, but you need to figure out who is going to buy who out, or if that isn’t possible, sell it and split the proceeds. If you have any bank accounts together, start right away splitting things up and putting your stuff in your name alone.
I don’t know how well you are getting along right now, but things have a way of changing for the worst at any given moment. You need to protect yourself. If he’s treated you like shit for the last 11 years, there’s no reason to think he’s not trying to manipulate you now.
Start filling your time with friends and activities that make you feel good about yourself. Maybe join a support group in your area. Some people have suggested Al Anon. It’s cheap, it’s supportive, and no matter what the problem with your partner it gives you tools for living your life for you. If there’s something you’ve always been interested in, some kind of craft or whatever, take a class and get to know some people who share your interest.
My heart goes out to you and the pain you’re dealing with, but in the long run better the pain you’re going through now and get on to a better life, than going through this for another 11 years, being another 11 years older, and no better off. Please take advantage of some of the resources I have links for here on the site. Hopefully you will find some information to give you strength and comfort. The main thing is there are a lot of us living with P/A’s and you are not alone. Please stop by and let us know how you are doing. Sometimes when you’re feeling a little weak, it even helps just to sit down and type your heart out at the keyboard. LOL.
I have been searching out help with this problem for years, trying to looking for some sort of support for myself. I have always known that something was not right with our marriage but in the beginning he told me he loved me but acted another way. I felt confused and I thought I was riding an emotional roller coaster all the time. After 15 years and many therapist later I have finally figured out that it’s not my problem even though he wants to twist the truth around so I am always the person in the wrong and he can always prove it and he is 100% right. He can’t see any of his faults, he’s narcissistic and I have spent way too long trying to change him. I guess I thought he really wanted to change but I see now that it’s just been talk for that moment since he gets defensive after he finds out I’m not buying the sorry routine. When that starts getting defensive there is no convincing him of anything, he is always right.
Our fiances are destroyed because of his many attempts at trying to make it rich as well as destroying our home with his many attempts at house remodels that he has never finished. Of course the home remodels are still works in progress which many have been for the last 15 years and still not finished. Time has no limits in his mind and I am keeping him from completing the progress because I don’t encourage him enough.
I think today it dawned on me that my life will not get any better than it is now and it sucks. If I were to keep quiet about his problems and never complain then life for him would be everything he wanted. I’m his invisible wife and he can do what he wants without any consequences. I think if he moves out I”d have a chance at being happy but I’ve asked him to go plenty of times before, he will not go. Then there is the money issue, we don’t have enough for an apartment for him. I have two young children and this is my second marriage. I’m not sure how to continue on with my life at the moment since I know how difficult it was being a single mom, yet in so many ways I am playing the single mom role. His detachment from the family has caused our entire family to suffer yet he says it’s been all my fault and how can he deal with a person that finds faults with him all the time. So, it’s been 15 years of abuse on my part towards him. I want to defend myself but if I do we end in a huge argument and I always get hurt since he is a master at being right. He is extremely passive to the point where he will not speak so if I do talk, then I get accuse of talking too much and not being considerate. But when he dose say something it hurts right to the bone since he always knows how to push the buttons but then hours later says he’s sorry and didn’t mean it.
I know in my heart it’s not me that this is his problem but I still hurt because I have no other support system. My mom is in the hospital and my dad has Alzheimer’s. I been having physical problems due to all of the stress and I don’t want to be ill since I need to care for my kids. I think I’ve never been happy in the entire 15 years of this marriage due to he stops my happiness. If I am happy and playing with the kids he will do something to cause problems, I try not to let him know how this effects me but I think he can see I’m mad. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard this man say he is sorry. But he never seems to stop doing what he says he is sorry for. So why do I stay? I think something is wrong with me for not leaving years ago. Why do I think I can fix him? I want to have the strength to leave and be happy again. When he is not home I feel a sense of relief and when he is home I feel stressed out. Yet, I wish for him to be the man I thought he was before we married but I know that this man was never the real person but a fake. His true personality is who he is now. I feel like he betrayed me right from the beginning and the person I fell in love with doesn’t exist. So, who the heck have I been living with all these years and being faithful too? Gosh, it sucks!!
Thanks for listening.
Dearest Lucy,
First, I’d like to apologize for not getting back to you sooner. Me like everyone else for the holidays am going crazy getting last minute stuff done.
Second, I’d like to welcome you to our little group here and say it’s nice to meet you. As you can see there are a few of us facing a lot of the same feelings and problems and it’s nice to see here we are not alone.
Normally I am not one to encourage break ups, especially when you’ve put so much time in, but at the same time I’m not one to advise staying in a hopeless relationship and wasting so much more time. They say we only pass this way once. If this marriage has gotten to the point that it’s starting to damage you physically, then it’s time to move on.
I do understand what you mean about being a single mom again and about the money. I didn’t leave the father of my children for the same reasons. Finally we had to file bankruptcy so all the bills were gone, and I left. Luckily I had my sister to go to, and while it was a little crowded for awhile, we made it through. I’ve also gone to live with my mother at times, kids in tow. I’m sorry to hear your mom’s in the hospital, but maybe you could take the kids and “house sit” for her for awhile, even if it’s just for a break to give you a chance to sort things out.
One thing that may help you with making a decision is what this kind of relationship is doing to your children. My kids are still getting over some stuff we went through with the ex and that was 15 yrs. ago. What you don’t want to teach them is that this kind of abuse is normal or ok.
Last, but not least, there is nothing wrong with you that you didn’t leave sooner. We all live with the hope that things will straighten out. That the person we fell in love with will see the light and all he/she is doing to push us away. We just need to learn when it’s time to say “enough is enough”. Sometimes that’s hard to do when they always know the right thing to say at the right time to say it. We all have gotten sucked in at sometime or another. Just one day you wake up and realize the record is truly broken and won’t play anymore. Hopefully we do it before we allow to much damage to ourselves.
Be sure and take a look at some of the books available at the Amazon link on the left side and there are a couple links on the right to discussion sites, etc that may help. Please come back and visit and let me know how you’re doing. Sometimes it helps a lot just to be able to talk (write) about it. It helps me too!
Lucy – I am no official expert but if you read my story on Dec 3rd it may give you a clue as to where you will be in a few short years – where I am now…..Being a single parent would definately be a struggle but isn’t it a struggle now – I am certainly not for giving up and bailing out but I would have had so much less hurt if I had done so years ago. Now I have a 14 year old son who worships his father and I see the signs that he is becoming more like him. I will try to give you some positives on this crazy thing called passive agressive – you can’t hurt him but he will hurt you. you can’t trust him because he will turn everything around to being you fault. I know with two small kids it is hard to have a life outside of home – especially if he is like my husband who says he will be home after work and I don’t see him for hours. But now my kids are teenagers I have a bit more flexibility – I have become much more involved in church – went back to college to get a second degree and basically planning on retiring in 10 years “on my own” which means we may live in the same household but we are basically ED – emotionally divorced – it is the only way I could save my sanity!! I am not trying to preach here but I went to church on Christmas Eve and went to the alter – I broke down and cried with our minister and asked God to give my an answer as to why I had this burden to bear – a couple hours later he answered me by saying that if I had had a husband to rely on I would not have asked for God’s help all these years. But because I did turn to God I know that He the one I have to depend on and not an earthly being.
I am still trying to work through this – it will be a lifetime of not understanding the person I love the most but keep your chin up and know that you are not alone in this roller coaster – I have been riding the ride for many years – I am so much better than I was for years in the past but it will always hurt that I am the one who has the cross to bear while he has no remorse for anything. But that is okay I will make it and so will you – stay in touch!!
May 2009 be a new beginning for you!
Karen- You go Girl! Thank you so much for your input here! I think 2009 is bringing many changes and actually I’m looking forward to them. I hope you had a wonderful holiday, even with the “stuff”. I’m also happy to hear you’ve found a friend in God. Whatever anyone else believes, I have found it to be very helpful (altho trust me, I’m no saint. LOL)
If any of you get a chance to watch Suze Orman (she’s on CNBC and PBS a lot) she’s terrific in giving financial advice and helping build security. I think a lot of times people, male and female that are in a bad situation would leave sooner if they were more financially not afraid. I know from experience I would have left long before I did if I wasn’t dealing with supporting 3 little kids and the bills, etc.
I’ve been trying to figure out my BF and his thought process for such a long time. Now I find that I’m the one that has become withdrawn, moody and flaky. All your insights are such a revelation. He is never puctual, non-committal, evasive, vague, I cannot rely on him for the simplest tasks: like signing checks for our company. All my friends want to take a mallet to him for the way he treats me. I used to not get it… hell.. now I do!
Thanks for all your comments! Please keep on sharing!
Hi fellow sufferers!
been a while since I reported in.
My husband left me in October on our second wedding anniversary (if you remember) well things got really nasty between us and i finally decided no more communication, just before Christmas. He was driving me insane..literally! Since then, though im hurting Ive been ok and getting better mentally! Now – 5 weeks since the last email when he said a big NO to coming home to me….ive had an email saying im the love of his life and he wants to come home. How its other people interferring (?????where did that come from) thats caused the trouble. This time I said no.. I said if you really mean it then you can start where you are and pay some bills!! The next email was short and to the point and not very nice…
God…!!! How much of this do we take?????
Have you guys heard of “splitting”??? Apparently its something they do which means they see things only in black and white and no grey….so your either wonderful or evil to them.. and the splitting means that one day you can be their saviour and the next day you are the cause of all evil…. and theres no inbetween….
I thought I was doing well up to now and two days of soppy emails from him and im crazy again….then when the “freeze” came it sent me into a panic.. so im not “cured” yet……
oh god…………
Hey Cinders- Glad to hear from you again, but sorry to hear what you’re going through. That must have been really tough all happening right before the holidays. You should be proud of yourself if you held out through that.
Sounds like you need to go back to the “no contact” phase you were in. Hope you’re having some luck with your “self esteem file”. John Shore from “Suddenly Christian” is doing a series over on “John Shore Land” about the 7 reasons women stay in bad relationships. The first post he goes throught the 7 reasons but then he’s taking each reason in depth post by post. Very good and beneficial. You may want to take a look and gain a little strength. Just remember you’ve come a long way. He obviously still doesn’t want to admit the problem is with him at all. Don’t give up the ground you’ve worked so hard to gain. (Altho we’ll support you in whatever you do. LOL)
You’re a ray of hope for those who haven’t made it out yet.
thanks ladybeams i will check out the John Shore Land site…
Will no doubt be in touch for the next thrilling installment of “I hate you – dont leave me….”
same time,…same channel…dont touch that dial.
hee hee
well you have to laugh dont you
Cinders- yes My Dear, you do. Otherwise how would we ever keep our sanity?
A PASSIVE AGGRESSIVE’S GUIDE TO RUINING VALENTINES DAY !
1. a week before the big day – leave! preferably to another country – dont have any communication whatsoever. This way as the dreaded day dawns your victim will be surrounded by images of loving couples and will have to suffer the shame of “pitying” remarks from friends and family.
2. Do not have any contact whatsoever – your victim will then be in an extremely vulnerable and weakened state.
3. On valentines day – send a large romantic bouquet of roses to your victim – (this is called the “grand gesture”) your victim who has been in a stressed state all week – will now melt into a pool of soppiness at your feet. make sure the card is not too personal or commiting – make it vague and just “friendly” so as to have an escape plan if it all goes wrong. The flowers also serve to show the friends and family what a lovely person you really are and how you cant possibly be as bad as the victim has portrayed.
4. Your victim is now forced to contact you in order to thank you for the flowers – and hopefully ask you to come back (again!) this is your moment of triumph.. enjoy it… .. take your time in responding to the “thank you”.. relish the feeling of power.
5. Finally……reply to victims thank you with a vague response that doesnt mean anything.. this leaves the victim once again in a state of “what is he trying to say? does he want to come back or not? whats happening” and voila! The victory is once again yours.
6. Do not have further contact now… wallow in your victims misery and confusion…..YOU ARE THE MAN !
next time on A Passive’s Guiid to – we tackle the Birthday!
Cinders- Don’t tell me on top of Valentine’s Day you have a birthday coming up. My gosh, between the holidays, V-day and B-day it’s just like a 1,2, punch, aye?
Sounds like your guy has been taking the “no contact” advice from “Getting Past Your Past” that was meant for you. I have to ask you My Dear, do you really want to get back into this now that you’ve already accomplished the biggest and hardest step by leaving? I know you love and miss him but is this really the kind of relationship you want for yourself? You’re worth so much more and so much better. I have a little exercise for you.
On a piece of paper in one column on the left, write down all the things you want in a man. Humor, affection, SEX (LOL), and on the right hand side of the paper write down all the things you don’t want in a man, emotional abuse, resentment, etc. In the middle make a column of things pertaining to your ex. Now draw lines to the traits that match each column. If I’m guessing right you’ll probably have a lot more lines going to what you don’t want than to the ideal man you do want. It’s just a little way of seeing something tangible about what’s really happening in the relationship. Then take a red pen or marker and put a big red X through the columns of what you don’t want in a man and through the column of your ex’s traits. This may make it easier to concentrate on what you do want from a man and a more loving relationship.
It’s always hard when you lose someone, whether they die or whether a relationship dies, but the wounds do heal in time. Give yourself credit for all your pluses and your right to be happy. Life is shorter than we realize.
I just found this article and thread, and am still sifting through all the info here – it’s a great discovery. My DH is absolutely PA. We’re coming up on our 7th anniversary but as usual, I waffle between being happy about this and being disappointed in myself for staying in this relationship this long. He’s wonderful about 20% of the time, and miserable to live with the rest of the time. Oscillates between being PA and just flat out aggressive. He accuses me of being controlling, but I feel that he forces me into a position where I *must* make all of the decisions, so he can complain about them.
I’ve tried to end our marriage a number of times, but always end up being sucked into staying because of our young son, and for the 20% of the time when he makes me happier than anyone else ever has. I always see his potential instead of his actuality, and find it so hard to give up the things about him that I love.
Anyway, I just wanted to chime in here. I guess we’re all between a rock and a hard place with our PA’s, right? Story of my life now.
magmonster- Welcome and thanks for joining us! It is hard when the good times are just sooo good, I know.
It’s not unusual that you two have the age old argument that you’re too controlling, etc. You’re right. They do push us into that role and it isn’t fair, but somehow we just can’t help ourselves sometimes. I know, I feel like my BF’s mother half the time, because if I don’t behave like that I, not only him, suffer the consequences. You might try next time you’re in that position just asking “So what do you want to do about _________?” If he doesn’t offer up a solution point out to him that he is leaving the solution up to you as you have to do something. Or, if he doesn’t offer a solution, explain what you want to do about it and ask what he thinks. If he tears your solution apart, ask what he would suggest instead.
You may still make all the decisions, but at least you’ll be putting him on notice that he had a chance to put in his two cents. Later if he doesn’t like your solution you can remind him that you talked about it. It may help. It may at least stop him from blaming you for those particular things (there will always be something).
Just be careful. It’s amazing what our children grow up thinking is normal, acceptable behavior based on what we allow in our relationships. You may need to make sure your son knows the difference. Good luck and drop back in anytime. There are a few of us here and you’re always welcome.
I am just learning about PA, too. My husband is a classic case. The most passive, nicest, never helpful, always a victim. It was always on me to figure out what pleases him. I’ve married for 25 years. we had a child 10 years after we got married. I finally realized how it affects my daughter’s development and moved my husband out. I am much happier and hoping to mend my daughter’s growth
EGG- Welcome! and good for you. It is so sad that we don’t always realize how much of an effect our relationships have on our kids. They look at us and think “okay, this is how you do it”.
I’m sorry for your loss after 25 yrs., but teaching your daughter to stay out of a passive aggressive relationship is so important. Why should they have to settle for that kind of relationship just because we did? Only because we teach them how. Good luck and feel free to stop back any time and let us know how it’s going. I admire your strength and your priorities.
Hi. I am glad to see that there are other well-educated, articulate women who understand my predicament. I am a doctor, as is my husband, who I have just recently realized is a classic PA. My husband has been sabotaging my career ever since we got married. He knew when we started dating that my career was very important to me, and that I was not willing to stay home. But despite that, he keeps making quips that I would be happier if I had more time for my outside interests(read: staying at home) despite my vehement insistance that the only thing that will make me happy right now is a fulfilling job.
I am in a very subspecialized field of medicine, and I have very few job opportunities available to me right now. My husband had a position that he likes, and does not want to leave. But there are no job opportunities for me in that city, or even in any surrounding cities. I have applied for every job for which I am even remotely qualified, even ones that I really don’t want. I have pestered, begged, pleaded, all to no avail.
I do have some possible jobs in a couple of other states, and have encouraged my husband to apply for positions in his area of medicine in these places. He refuses to lift a finger when it comes to searching for these jobs. When I show him job postings in the areas that I have interviews or job offers, he will inevitably pooh-pooh them as not paying enough, not a good enough mix of cases, etc etc. He always says he’s looking for jobs, but every time I ask him if he has called or emailed any practices, I always get the same peeved response, filled with excuses about how busy he was, and how I am being too demanding, and how my career is “too big” a part of my life.
I have an interview coming up at a University program, and I took the liberty of forwarding my husband’s CV to the chair of the department of his area of medicine. I got an email saying that they are really interested in him, so I asked him to give them a call. He replied that it would “be hard because he was going to be at work all day, and he didn’t have a computer to look up their phone number”. So I looked up the phone number, and sent it in a text to his phone. But he still hasn’t called, because now, he has decided that only email will do. And, (big surprise), no email addresses are listed on the university website, so I guess he thinks that means he’s off the hook! By the way, it’s been almost two weeks since I first asked him to call.
I am getting upset, because the promise of “I will follow you anywhere you go to fellowship” melted away when he decided it was financially a bad idea to quit his job for just a year to move with me. Fine. So now as I write this, I am finishing my fellowship by myself hundreds of miles away from my husband. The promise then turned into “I will follow you anywhere you get a job after fellowship”, and it’s pretty clear that he wants to drag his feet until the point that he can throw up his hands and claim failure.
At that point, I will have to make a choice: Take a job in one of the far away states, and accept being alone for several more years (or maybe permanently) in order to feel fulfilled in my career, or give up my career in order to stay with my husband, and be an extremely highly educated stay at home mom, which is what I promised myself I would never, ever do.
This is so emotionally draining, and I am clinically depressed and on medication. Unfortunately, this has only destroyed my credibility in my husband’s eyes and he seems to see my mood disorder as proof positive that I’m the one with the problem-not him.
I want to get counseling, and have suggested it many times, but because we are currently in a long distance relationship, that really complicates matters. Getting him to actually go would really be an issue. There’s never time…I really want to work things out, but his insistence on trying to hold me back in my career, especially at this critical stage of the game is making it really hard to justify staying with him.
Part of the problem is that he is very controlling financially. He makes a lot more than me, and probably always will. (He went into a much more lucrative specialty than I did). He often uses that as leverage, because I cannot ever make enough to justify the large paycut he insists he will incur if he changed jobs. My job is just less important in his eyes.
Well, thanks for giving me an opportunity to get this off my chest. I have lots more to say, but I am sure it’s getting dull.
Pleomorphic
Hi Pleomorphic- Welcome. It sounds like you are going to have quite a dilemma on your hands. I hope you are considering what you are going to do before you actually have to make the choice, if it comes down to that. I’m sorry to say the odds are probably stacked against you as he didn’t keep his promise about fellowship already.
Like the rest of us I’m sure you didn’t get married so you could be alone. It sounds as if you truly do love your career, which makes me think if you give it up to stay home you will really become depressed. Even tho you cannot seek counseling with him due to your distance, I hope you are seeking it for yourself. You may have to shop a little to find someone you are comfortable with and you feel you can trust, but when you do it really does help to have the support.
I don’t envy you your position and it’s really not fair that you have been put there. He changed the rules on you. As most passive aggressives do, he aggreed to anything before he had you and now doesn’t want to follow through on your plans together. It’s a shame these guys don’t have to wear a sign that says “I will wisper anything you want to hear, just don’t ever try to hold me to it because I probably won’t remember what I agreed to, or will refuse to keep my word, or will just claim your nuts”. At least that would give unsuspecting possible partners a warning ahead of time.
Please stop by anytime to vent or let us know how you’re doing. There are a few of us here. Good luck and all you can do is make the best decision for you.
My friend on Orkut shared this link with me and I’m not dissapointed at all that I came here.
How to get six pack fast- Thanks for stopping by and the compliment. It’s nice to know someone is getting enough out of the site to want to share it.
Hi ladybeams Im back on this site!
Ive just read pleomorphics message and – oh how familiar that sounds. My husband, as you may remember, left me – its 6 months now. Hes attempted to come back to me twice and each time something has stopped him at the last minute. I get “I cant live without you please take me back” then I get a tirade of abuse and accusations when he changes his mind.
He wants to “see” me when hes lonely and the rest of the time he wants his freedom. Ive been through all that depression and medication myself. I was positive about a reconciliation but ive lost that hope now. the latest thing Ive been learning is that my husband is probably borderline personality and that I must have some fear of rejection issues. Its these fears that make me want to get him back. But right now I realise I have to face those fears and let him go….the altrnative is to spend the rest of my life with him treating me like this OR the possibility of “choosing” a man who has the same PA disorder. So my priority now is myself. To love myself and increase my self worth and self esteem. Now when I think of him I just stop those feelings of pain and say “I can do better! Im worth more than him! HIS LOSS!” and I am beginning to believe it. I would say to pleomorphic take the job and the life you want. Be good to yourself. put yourself first.. because thats what your husband will always do. You wont be alone for ever. You will “do better” – and so will I!
Im still “wobbly” and still feel the hurt, but ive to learn not to be afraid of my husband dumping me. I have to just see it as a sign that he was never “the one” and that Im now free to meet a man who will treat me like the queen I actually am!
PS; This site is brilliant!
Oh Cinders- I’m so happy for you! I can’t believe it’s been 6 months since we first started talking on here and he first left. You are so right. We’re all worth much more and much better than what you are getting. It sounds like even through the hurt and the pain, you’re coming along just fine. I’m so happy you came back to let us know how you’re doing. You’re a prime example that it does get better with time, and an inspiration to those who are also suffering. It is HIS LOSS! LOL.
Welcome back! Not just to here, but back to your life as you want it to be.
Dear all,
I have been married to a PA for twenty-two years and I did not know it! I have four children with him-all girls, teenagers now. I ahve been emotially abused and literally tortured for years….for a long time I thought there was something wrong with me. I ahve been seeing thereapists and psychiatrists for the last ten years! and it wa not only until recently theough a friend I made while working in the Middle East that I discovered that my dear husband is a classic case of PA.
I have stayed all this time thinking that something was wrong with me and not HIM! I am also afraid that he could manipulate the situation enbough that he could get the custody of my 13, 15 and 17 year old. My oldest daughter is 20 years old. I am so greatful that you have this blog going. I never knew who to go to.
Emotional abuse is hard to prove and most people do not understand what’s going on. Most people see it as a he said/she said kind of thing.
I can not even talk to my husband about his condition because he will deny it or laugh on my face. I do not think he knows or understand his personality disorder.
Who is the best person to tell him?
What about my daughters? will they suffer if I leave? They love their father, inspite the way he treats them. I know my husband will fight to keep them if I leave.
Any advice?
Dearest Broken,
Welcome to our group. I’m so sorry to hear what you have been going through and for so long. You would think with those years of therapy that someone would have let you know a while ago that the problem was with him. They’re supposed to be there for you for support. Unfortunately, like any other profession, you don’t always get good ones.
Your children are old enough now to decide for themselves who they want to live with, at least in most states. They start getting to put in their opinions at about the age of 12 in California, so depending on what your children say, it may not be as easy for him to get custody as you think.
If you feel like you can’t talk to him about this and you don’t have any one else that can, what I would do is get the book “The Passive Aggressive Man”, either from the library or buy the one on the “recommended reading list” and leave it on the coffee table or somewhere where he will see it. That will probably start a conversation. It would help you understand what you’ve been dealing with all these years also, and help you consider what to do next.
Of course children are hurt when parents split, but if you’ve been in an unhappy household for all these years, it may also be a relief. I would talk to them. They’re all old enough now, and if he’s been treating them poorly also, they need to know it’s him, not them, just like you do. I just wouldn’t talk to them about actual leaving until you’re set up to carry through. What I would do is start talking to them now about not letting men mistreat them.
Good luck to you Broken. Feel free to join in the conversation any time and let us know how you’re faring. There are a few of us here who totally understand what you’ve been going through. I’m usually a little faster on the replies, but have been getting ready to move myself. I usually check in every day, and even if I don’t write a post I try to reply to comments. You can always contact me direct also.
How great is it to find a site like this! After reading all the mails I can at last feel I am not alone with this soul breaking, awful condition. I was married for two years to a man I loved deeply. He divorced me (always me in the wrong, me wondering what I had done) and then spent the next year meeting, starting ‘again’, him falling out with me but of course it was my fault yet again!
In the past four years with him I have had three moves, one marriage, one divorce, untold emotional abuse but I can say that at last I am on the up. It is getting better. I am now in my own place with my children, my life is calm and despite missing him dreadfully, know that finally I am on the way back to my life and me. These PAs inflict such dreadful emotional pain – I have been through the ‘if onlys’ for so long. If only he could realise what he has done; if only he was aware. But of course, it will never be like that. He used to be so vitriolic about his second wife, something I assumed was true. I now have come to realise that as she had spent many more years with him than me, it must have been absolutely dreadful for her and no wonder she did some of the things she did. He is now being vitriolic about me. No surprise but very sad all the same as we DID share some magical and deeply loving times.
Thank you for this site, it is so good to know that there are others who can share their experiences and we can all gain support from each other.
Welcome Jane- So glad you found us and to hear you are doing well pulling yourself out of the “black hole”. LOL. Thanks for being an inspiration where many times there is none.
It’s amazing to me that the PA doesn’t see that if every one is complaining about the same things about them, that maybe it’s them, not every one else. I’m always sorry to hear about the people who have endured the pain, but it’s always nice to hear a success story from someone who has come out on the other side. Thanks so much for sharing with us.
Thanks for your reply, ladybeams. Hope your move went well! You are quite right, if everyone is complaining about their PA (even unknown as this) behaviour that they dont realise this. Think they just feel the world is against them and they have done nothing wrong. They (actually I can only speak for my Ex) probably only keep those close to them who they know will ‘tow the line’. In my case it was his two daughters. I feel sorry that they will grow up no doubt having problems with future relationships with boyfriends due to the only behaviour they know, which is his, and his stonewalling and will see this as normal, as I had witnessed. Another extremely taxing and irritating behaviour!
I am from the UK and would like to say how grateful I am to your website, there doesnt seem to be much on PA behaviour over here, so in once sense you have been a lifeline! Thank you…
Jane- Thank you so much for saying the site has help you. I’m so glad, but I think it’s all of us in the same kind of situation having each other to bounce our feelings and questions off of that really helps. I can’t tell you how much this site and all my reader’s have helped me.
Keep coming back. I think when we read what each other is going through or how we’re handling it, it helps us all.
I am so glad to have found this sight. I have been looking for a support group for spouses of passive aggressive husbands for a long time. I may try al anon. I have been married to a pa for 20 years. We have one son, he said he couldn’t handle more and I must say, neither could I considering I do 90% of the work around the house and also have a job an hour away with traffic. When I met my husband he was gentle in a childlike way, I felt he was safe and non-threatening. He listened to me and agreed with everything. He depended on me way too much, but I didn’t mind at first. Then it got annoying when he didn’t seem to grow up.
When we had our son, 13 years after we met and 8 years after we married, my husband was joyful and gave him lots of love and attention. However, we didn’t know my husband is also ADHD, something he discovered at age 40, 4 years after we had the baby. At that point, I thought our problems were due to the ADHD, but after he got medicine he still acted in ways that were hurtful and selfish.
I would let him know I was overwhelmed and needed to talk about systems and more structure, and he would just agree and not follow through. He never has come up with a suggestion of his own to improve something, not one. He also has never asked me how he could help, no matter if we were expecting dinner guests, or whatever.
5 plus years ago I wanted to resolve our distance and he did–by getting hooked on the internet and meeting Chinese women. He became obsessed with China and started studying the language and culture. He told me he cheated twice with Chinese women (paid).
Why are we still together? Our son adores his father and I didn’t want to take that away from him. Now, my husband will not leave, I have asked countless times. I saw a lawyer who said unless there is physical abuse I can’t get him out without a signed agreement.
My hub is PA, so keeps saying he will move but never does. Asks for an agreement, but never plans to meet with me. Same old thing. He can’t see how his behavior contributes to the marriage problems, it’s my anger problem that has driven him away.
Will writing down everything make them see what they do? All the broken promises? He just changes the subject. The irony is I found him therapist whom he has now seen about 3 years, and relies on, but she hasn’t done a damn thing for our relationship or his behavior. We saw her and other therapists together, and it was obvious he had no intention of improving anything, and never followed their advice.
I think his father is PA and his not finishing projects drives my hub crazy.
He has completely frozen me out. Won’t touch me, not even a hug or pat. If I touch him, he draws away. Yet he will greet our son with warmth and loving openness. Is that PA, just directed at me?
Thank you for listening
Selina- First let me apologize for this taking so long to get back to you. Usually wordpress notifies me if there’s a comment and I get right to it, even if I don’t post anything. Somehow I must have missed it this time.
My gosh, what a mess! I’m just flabbergasted at times to see the damage a passive aggressive can do to people’s lives. At least you’re lucky in the way that he’s good to your son. Usually a child is struggling as hard for the PA’s love and attention as you are. Unfortunately at the same time, it can’t be doing him any good living in a home with all that tension between you and his father.
I’m glad to hear you say you may try Al-Anon. While we here are happy to be online support for you, it’s good for you to have real live support around you in your daily life. Just remember as you try Al-Anon, you may not get a “perfect fit” right off the bat, and may have to try a couple of them before you find a meeting you’re comfortable in. A good group therapy for women works well also. I know you said the two of you have gone to therapy together in the past, but I hope you’re still getting some kind of therapy for yourself. When it comes to a therapist, there again you have to “kiss a lot of toads before you find a prince”. It’s a shame the therapist your husband is seeing isn’t doing the two of you any good, but if your husband won’t follow through, even a really good one won’t be able to help him. To be honest, according to everything I’ve read, therapy doesn’t do much good for a passive aggressive because they never can admit they are responsible for anything that’s gone wrong in their relationships.
As far as actually splitting, I hate to tell you this, but you will have to be the one to go. He will keep up this passive aggressive game with you forever if you let him. The father of my children did virtually the same thing to me. He would say he would leave, that it wasn’t right for me to have to go with having the 3 children, and he would actually go for a couple of nights. Then he would come in and out as if he still lived there, and then he would be back staying there, etc. Like you, I couldn’t force him out either. The only way I could get loose from him was I had to take my kids and go. He ended up losing our house in foreclosure rather than give it to me and the children if he couldn’t live there.
You ask about writing things down, and you can certainly try that, if you could get him to read it. Do you really want to keep this man after all he’s done to you? What you can do that does work at least most of the time is call him out on his behavior as it happens. When he says he’s going to do something like meet you at a certain time, repeat it, have him agree to it. When he doesn’t, remind him of the conversation and ask him why he didn’t follow through like he said he would. Try to be calm, because when we’re coming unglued they have control. When you ask him, then be quiet and wait expectantly for an answer. If you start calling him out on his passive aggressive behavior each time he does something, at least he has to acknowledge that you’re on to him. Of course, like with my passive aggressive BF it just causes them to act out in a different way. You would think they would get exhausted coming up with all that subterfuge. LOL. Also when he didn’t do what he says he will, I’m afraid I would be tempted to remind him of his father’s unfinished projects, how it drives him crazy, and how he is acting just like him by not completing what he says he will.
Last but not least, his passive aggressiveness very well could be directed only at you, because he sees you as an authority figure, like his mother. Until he gets a handle on the things in his past that have caused this type of behavior, be it his mother or his father, you are his final target for his aggression and getting “even”. You may want to read “A Different Concept on Why Passive Aggressives Withhold Sex” It’s quite interesting about the whole “age regression” thing.
Now I have to apologize for rambling on so long. LOL. I hope you find this helpful. Please feel free to contact me anytime and leave a comment to let us know how you’re doing. Like I said, usually I’m a lot faster on a reply. Good luck to you.
I too have recently discovered that I am married to a PA. I have spent 25 years with him and we have 3 children. (23,22,16) Like most of you on this blog, I did not have a clue about PA. I just thought that my husband was moody. The silence, coldness and meanness have been severe. He is a self-proclaimed “Mr. Right.” He is argumentative and unreasonable but denies that he is any of this. He provides for his family but is often controlling regasrding financial matters. Right now it is very difficult because I am unemployed. I don’t sleep well and am fighting not to become depressed. I know I must take care of myself. The hardest part has been acccepting that my husband isPA. We have been to one counseling session, but he said that I made him sound like a tyrant. We have had some wonderful times as you all can relate to, it’s just that you know that the bomb will drop suddenly and without notice. t is difficult because we are both Christians. I know heathens who have better relationships than this. I believe that if PA’s could t least admit that they have so wounded us and caused such hurt that healing could begin. I don’t believe taht change will come for them until there is true brokeness, remorse and repentance over the damage that they have done to the ones they are supposed to love and protect. I have become increasingly suspicious and distrusting but he does not connect this to his great ability to disconnect from me spiritually, physically and emotionally. I pray for him because it is sad that he is trapped and doesn’t even know it. I am hopeful that his heart is not so hardened that he won’t allow the Lord to help him because that is really the only hope for my husband and all of the rest of you who are suffering along with me. I have not given up yet…he would be happy if I would just drop it all and go back to our crazy normal…never again. I will not allow him to get away with all of that sidestepping and evasiveness, and twisting words and events around. I call him on it every time. My son will marry soon and I am praying that he will not treat his wife this way becuse I have alreday seen some of this in him. Do you all wonder what happened to our PA husbands to make them this way?
Lenora- Welcome to the site. I’m happy you found us.
I can see that it must be a little extra hard for you right now with being unemployed on top of everything else. That alone after awhile will get you down. I too had a very controlling husband when it came to finances. He figured because he made more money he was in charge and had the final say. He finalized us right into bankruptcy. LOL. That’s when I took the kids and left. At least at that point I didn’t have to take a bunch of bills with me.
It’s unfortunate that it seems when things are really bothering us we find ourselves not being able to sleep. That is when we need it the most and it is so important because if you’re not well rested, things seem even worse than they already are. I’m sure you know all the tricks to getting a good nite’s sleep, so I won’t go into them all here. Two things I will pass on that I had no idea about is 1) Don’t exercise to close to bedtime. 2) No computer too close to bedtime. Both things are stimulating instead of sleep inducing. I do the hot bath, glass of wine or hot milk thing, the things that make you feel comfy-cozy.
When you went to the counselor and he said you described him as a tyrant, did you ask him if you said anything that wasn’t true? It may get him thinking about how he acts or reacts. You said the two of you are Christians, have you tried talking to your minister or clergy? Sometimes they’re not as threatening as a therapist and a little gentler on their approach. I hope even if he’s not willing to go for counseling any more that you are continuing for yourself. Getting your feelings validated and having the extra support is extremely helpful, even if your husband never admits to anything.
It’s good that you bring all his covert tactics out into the light when he tries them on you. This is the only way they learn that their tactics aren’t going to work on you. I hope when you see some of these traits in your son you point them out also, and hopefully are able to teach him at the same time why they are wrong.
As far as how our passive aggressive husbands, wives, boyfriends, etc. got that way, it usually comes from their childhood, not being allowed to express their anger and resentment in a normal way. For why they don’t connect emotionally or sexually with us you may want to read my page on the Definition of a Passive Aggressive. You may also find this article on A Different Concept on Why a Passive Aggressive Withholds Sex helpful in understanding.
I hope some of this is helpful in your quest for a happier marriage. Good luck to you and God Bless. Feel free to stop in anytime to chat, let us know how you’re doing, or find encouragement in some of the other comments on the site.
Hi everybody
Ive just read Lenora’s comment.
Surely, God can heal a person with PA just as surely as he can heal a person with cancer?
Has anybody out there taken a stand in faith and prayed for healing for their spouse?
God promises that if we ask in faith he will do anything we ask? Just because a persons illness is mental or psychological doesnt discount them from the healing that was bought with the blood of Christ.
I would really like anybodys thoughts on this.
Its coming up to my third wedding annivesary and it will be a year since my PA husband walked out and went cold on me. Ive had communication but all the usual crap – until I stopped responding to him – it seemed as though he wanted me to say its ok what youve done to me and i will still be around whenver you want me to be. But it was destroying me, so I cut it off. Still I do pray for him that God will heal him, and I do pray that I wil have the husband and marriage that God promised me. (whether thats my current husband or a new one I dont know).
the devil comes to steal, kill and destroy – and marriage is the top of his list – so we have to fight back surely?
Oh My Gosh! Cinders, hi! So glad to hear from you.
Yes, I do believe that you can pray for anyone’s healing. Unfortunately thanks to Adam and Eve, we all have our own free will. I have seen prayer work to 1)heal 2) make some one smile when I ask God to Bless them (silently) 3) to soften someone’s heart against me. I think even if they never change or heal, it can never hurt someone to include them in your prayers. Sometimes it takes more prayers than others. LOL. Please don’t be offended by my chuckle here. Just not every one listens to what God is saying.
I know it didn’t probably feel like it at the time, but that was a favor your husband did you by leaving. We try for so long, trying so hard, and for many too many years to break the cycle or get loose. It sounds like you have a hold on how he was trying to manipulate you after he left and that you have a positive outlook for the future. When you have healed and have been able to totally release the past, I’m sure God will bring the right man along for you. As they say “When one door shuts, another will open”.
Good luck to you, My Dear, God Bless, and please, stay in touch.
I too am married to a passive aggressive man. I married my high school sweetheart fours years ago after a 30 year seperation.
My husband of 25 years had passed away 18 months prior. I thought I was on cloud 9 and my knight in shining armor had come to my rescue.
After caring for a sick husband for 15 years, I became very independent, assertive and confident. But after just a few months with my PA husband, I found myself self doubting myself and wondered if he loved me at all with the way he treated me. I became very co-dependent.
I could never understand why he toyed with my emotions and teased me in the bedroom to only drop me like a hot potato. What kind of man that claims he loved me so much could do this to me?
But after almost 4 years of marriage it hit me, he had told me in the beginning that he was diagnosed with PA, but I didn’t understand what that was until now when I picked up the book, “Living with a Passive Aggressive Man” by Scott Wetzler.
When I called him on it, that is when the marriage ended. He kicked me out of his house because I was onto him and he couldn’t play his game with me any more.
We have been seperated for 6 weeks now and I still want him back because these PA men are so charming, but I know that nothing will change because he refuses to get any help and so I have to be strong and resist him. When I was with him I was never able to resist him. I just can’t take living with Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hide any longer.
Why can’t these men realize what they are doing to the women that love them?
Dear Marlene- Welcome to the “club” and thank you so much for sharing your story.
I’m sorry to hear after such a long marriage with your late husband, and one in which it must have been successful to a certain extent or it wouldn’t have lasted so long, that you found yourself in the “PA trap”. It’s a shame you didn’t know more about the subject when he first let you know he was diagnosed with passive aggressive disorder. You could have ran. LOL.
I’m also sorry to hear that he would rather lose you than have to do something about his problem, but for a PA that’s really not unusual. I’m not sure which is worse, the ones that refuse to see the light and take responsibility, or the ones that pretend to want to change, go to therapy but never follow the advice. They both cause a terrible hurt.
I’m glad to hear you’re resisting him for your own good. Be sure and visit the link in the right hand side bar titled “Getting Past Your Past”. It’s an excellent site for recovery.
Feel free to stop by anytime and share what’s happening with you or comment. We are or have been there, and hopefully our discussions help someone else going through similar circumstances.
I was interested to read Marlenes story. For me,. I feel Im only just coming out of the fog of confusion that my husand has caused me…even after leaving, marlene, dont think its over yet, he could still continue to play his little games with you as mine did!
When you said you couldnt resist him when you were with him…. I wonder, if it is that they are so charming and wonderful or if in fact they use psychological persuasion to control us into thinking we cant resist them. if you analyse it afterwards you will wonder what the hell you ever say in him in the first place. This same psychology cons us into thinking its all our fault and that if only we could love him more or understand him more.. its all rubbish!
Im in the process now of trying to get free mentally from all the prisons and bars hes put into my head, and im discovering that I dont even really like him let alone love him.
The worst thing is the shame… I wasnt a soft, niaive, stupid woman before I met him, so the shame of being conned by a deceiver like this is hard to bear.
Him being a Christian has also screwed up my mental health, because he has used this against me to control me as well.
I guess Ive still a way to go yet.
Yesterday, I was taking care of my Mom-in-law’s yard. I like to do this for her, because her health is not so good and I love doing yardwork. I also love my MIL (I am one of the lucky ones to have a wonderful MIL). So anyway, we went over there to work in the yard and she made dinner for us. So before we go in, I told him that I will sweep off the sidewalks after we eat. He says no, he will do it, and for me to go in and eat. I said no, we ALL need to go in and eat with his Mom who made dinner for us to eat TOGETHER, and that I will do it after we eat. So he gets his typical “fine, whatever you want just so you’ll stop being a bitch” attitude (I wasn’t being a bitch), turns around to go inside and shuts the door in my face. Of course, he probably didn’t see me. That’s what he would have said. So I didn’t say anything to him, but he knew I was mad about it.
It’s these little things that really set me off. The big things just pile up and then he does little mean crappy things to me and it breaks me down. But “he didn’t mean it” or “he didn’t see me”. Why does he want to hurt me, but then won’t admit it, and turns it around into me hurting him for thinking that he wants to hurt me. It drives me insane! So I spent all of dinner trying not to cry in front of his Mom. But, she knows. He does it to her too.
He is going out of town for work this week. I am happy he’s leaving. It’s like a vacation for me when he’s gone. He doesn’t travel very often, but when he does, it’s nice. I used to miss him terribly when he travelled. Now, it’s not much different than when he’s here. Except I don’t have to feel that heavy, emotional, walk-on-eggshells, feeling that I get when he’s here.
Stacy- Thank you so much for leaving your comment. It sounds like you’re one of the lucky ones to love you mother in law. LOL.
You know, I don’t know why they want to hurt us like they do. I think it’s a natural reaction after so many years of using these little tactics to “get even”. I don’t think theythink about what they are doing and the impact it will have. We are just on the bottom of a long list they have been using this behavior on for a very long time. The difference is that we actually care enough about them to notice it, and in return it hurts our feelings. In their past they actually got away with it because the people that caused it never realized what was going on. Now for many of the passive aggressives it’s just been too long to change.
I totally understand what you said about him being gone. It’s like for a short time, there’s a certain peace that you can feel. It’s like when my late husband and I used to drive over to our vacation house. He used to say when we hit a certain part of the ride (the part that flattened out at the top of the hill) that he could feel all the tension leave his body and a whole different feeling of lightheartedness would come over him. I totally get that.
I hope you are taking care of yourself and spending time with good friends who are supportive, or even if you don’t share what you’re going through, are at least fun and give you a little time to laugh and “back up your batteries”. It’s very important now that you take care of you first, then your marriage. If you’re not at full speed you won’t have the energy you need to support yourself. Also it’s a little “revenge” of our own. When we’re well rested and taking care of ourselves, we’re not so easily manipulated and controlled which makes them think twice about their tactics. A good therapist or support group where you live works really well also. If you don’t have insurance or you can’t afford it, look into your city or county mental health center. It’s amazing how much better it feels to be able to unload somewhere, even here. LOL
Stop by anytime. Let us know how it’s going. I feel sorry for your MIL if she’s been putting up with this too. What was his father like? She’s very lucky to have you. I’m sure you put a little of the love she’s missing in her life also.
Ladies-
After all the tears we’ve cried
and all the lies they’ve lied
and all the crazy crap we’ve been through
making our brains half fried,
isn’t it great to be
at least a little bit more free
in a place where everybody understands
the you and the me we
thought we were to blame
full of anger and shame
just ball breaking controllers
merely female in name
but ladybeams with her insight
I bet helps us all to sleep at night
we don’t feel so alone anymore
and it’s alright
for us to acknowledge our pain
and not to remain
unless we want to in these situations
which f*** with our brains
so we’ll share and we’ll laugh and get mad
and we’re gonna be lost and be pissed and feel sad
cause we wanna but one day we will find some serious peace of mind
and who knows we just might end being glad
that it’s finally done.
peace,
i love ya’ll
CeCe
( a 5-year relationship survivor who can recognize passive aggressive tendencies in potential beaus and stop the madness before it starts)
CeCe- Wow, welcome and thank you so much. Your poem is very good. Thank you for the compliment. I think that’s what’s so great about all those who comment here, is I think we all help each other.
Your last 2 lines are the answer: surviving and then spotting those same tendencies in the future so we never fall into that trap again. Congratulations on being able to get past it. We’d all love to hear how you did it, I’m sure.
Please feel free to share your story or comment anytime.